Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

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twincitizen
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby twincitizen » May 26th, 2016, 2:26 pm

mattaudio wrote:Is there any plan to actually have slip ramps to/from the HOV lanes at 76th or at American/82nd as part of interchange rebuilding? I have not seen that in the most recent MnDOT files for the 35W/494 rebuild. Which is a crying shame, since this poor bus will have to weave in and out of HOV lanes to get around stopped rush hour traffic and then to get to outside stations at 66th, Knox, and 98th.

If that can't be built, I hope they can do a southbound HOV/BRT entrance from Knox to 35W, since there's a planned braid bridge for the 82nd St exit to cross over the 494 entrance to 35W south.
There is plenty of time between the 46th station and 66th St exit to switch lanes. And the 66th interchange isn't going to be rebuilt for a long, long time. I really wouldn't worry about it Matt. That's a question for 20+ years from now.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » May 26th, 2016, 2:35 pm

More proof BRT is hardly "light rail on rubber tires" though. Without dedicated ROW, this bus will feature weaving and lurching harming ride quality during congested rush hours on 35W.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby talindsay » May 26th, 2016, 2:48 pm

I think any pretext of "light rail on rubber tires" left this project years ago. A massively improved bus service with higher-amenity stops, the most critical of which are inline, still helps.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » May 26th, 2016, 4:13 pm

mattaudio wrote:More proof BRT is hardly "light rail on rubber tires" though. Without dedicated ROW, this bus will feature weaving and lurching harming ride quality during congested rush hours on 35W.
"Buses are better because they're flexible and can easily be routed where demand is."

Signed,

every anti-LRT person who thinks they know how transit works

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby intercomnut » July 20th, 2016, 12:12 pm

According to the project manager, the CTIB is considering pulling all funding from the Orange Line due to Dakota County pulling out of CTIB.

https://twitter.com/stinamo/status/755776184579948544

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Silophant » July 20th, 2016, 12:59 pm

Wait, what? 10/12 stations and 80% of the route length is in Hennepin County. Cut it off at 98th St, sure, but why would they kill the whole thing?

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby RailBaronYarr » July 20th, 2016, 3:37 pm

I think it's a legitimate accusation that wholesale cutting Red Line capital/ops funding, cutting the Orange Line entirely, and scaling back express bus service contributions is mostly retaliatory for Dakota leaving. Is it possible they're using this tactic to get DC to commit to giving a small portion of whatever sales tax they enact to keeping the lights on for existing services and extending the Orange Line into Burnsville? I just can't imagine CTIB thinks it would be a good idea to cut the OL entirely.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby sdho » July 21st, 2016, 8:37 am

I expressed my concerns to Commissioners McLaughlin and Opat, the Hennepin County reps. Although forum posts are great, I'd hope concerned people here will express those thoughts to our representatives.

McLaughlin replied promptly, but his response is similar to the language used in the Strib article -- that CTIB has to make tough choices without Dakota County's money, and if I have concerns about this, I should probably address them with Dakota County, since they're the problem here (paraphrasing, of course).

I agree that Dakota "started it" and made a very poor decision, but as a resident of Richfield, I don't like the idea of *the only major transit investment* in decades that would serve my community being cut simply because I'm "on the way" to Burnsville.

Ending at 98th would be a reasonable compromise, if it came to that. However, I believe the most expensive parts are Lake St and 494. Not sure stopping it from going over the bridge really offers much in cost savings.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby twincitizen » July 21st, 2016, 8:58 am

Operationally, it would be much cheaper to stop at 98th Street. Even when you factor in loss of ridership, I'd still guess the line is probably more cost effective terminating at 98th. But you're right, the actual capital improvements planned for the 1.5 stations in Burnsville are fairly minimal, particularly relative to projected ridership gains. The real question I guess, is whether shortening the line would mess things up with the Feds. (i.e. would we have to start over, lose funding, etc.)

It's really hard to tell right now how much of this is political posturing to get Dakota County to change their minds and how much is actual threat to not build the project at all. That's scary AF. Please everyone contact county commissioners, your House/Senate reps, and Gov. Dayton. This line absolutely needs to happen. It's probably the single most cost effective piece of rapid transit service planned anywhere in the Twin Cities. No other LRT or freeway BRT line will deliver this much ridership for this little money.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby kellonathan » July 31st, 2016, 12:19 pm

I actually really like the idea of cutting the Orange Line at 98th St. (current South Bloomington TC location right off of I-35W, I assume)

I am not up to date on the ridership patterns along the corridor, but I always assumed that Burnsville passengers would be better served by higher service level on MVTA express routes to dwtn anyway. Local, off-peak demands can be captured by MVTA feeder routes to MOA.
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Mdcastle » July 31st, 2016, 12:39 pm

The problem I see is that the the Park and Ride at 98th isn't large enough to be a terminus. I doubt many people will drive across the river and park considering the river bridge was one of the worst congestion problems and they'd be better served by commuter coaches, but it won't take that many to cause a real parking problem.

Of course, there's my idea to rebuild the whole thing with structured parking and mixed use development over either Clover Center or the former SuperAmerica headquarters...

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » July 31st, 2016, 5:19 pm

Whatever happens to the Orange Line the South Bloomington Transit Center needs to change. Parking capacity is near full or completely full on most weekdays.

If the Orange Line is shortened to South Bloomington it would be nice to have a local MVTA service between Burnsville and South Bloomington with branches to Normandale Community College and the Mall of America. This would bring more frequency and reliability on 98th Street currently served by Routes 535 and 539.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby twincitizen » August 4th, 2016, 8:34 am

http://current.mnsun.com/2016/08/03/cou ... e-at-risk/

Why am I getting the feeling that this is not just a political stunt by McLaughlin to get Dakota County back in CTIB, but that he would actively seek to kill Orange Line as a way to redirect those CTIB funds to keep Southwest/Bottineau on track? Dakota County's exit means CTIB has a cash flow problem, which impacts the ability to build out Southwest and Bottineau. Killing the Orange Line would be one way to ensure the LRT lines don't get shortchanged. If that's the case, shame on him. That's an incredibly shortsighted, pathetic decision to make. FWIW, Adam Duininck (who has a vote on CTIB) says he will vote against defunding Orange Line. Hopefully enough of the other CTIB reps do the same. Do we need to lobby Ramsey & Anoka County Commissioners to save the Orange Line?

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby jw138 » August 6th, 2016, 9:13 am

If the Orange Line is killed (or even delayed), might we see the Chicago BRT and Nicollet BRT/streetcar projects expedited?

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Tcmetro » August 6th, 2016, 10:50 am

No because those aren't eligible for CTIB funding, as they are local arterial BRT/streetcar projects.

CTIB will be losing a decent amount of revenue from the Dakota Co. pullout, so they are trying to salvage what they can. Seems that at least some at CTIB consider the Orange Line worth losing.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby sdho » August 9th, 2016, 12:55 pm

From what I have heard, Dakota County has indicated they are willing to pay their share of operational costs of the Orange Line -- and they're going to be paying the capital costs no matter, because they continue to contribute to CTIB for that long. As far as the Orange Line is concerned, the money that was being used to pay for it still exists. The fact that future projects may be shortchanged by Dakota County's bad decision is not a reason to pull money from this line that will, overwhelmingly, benefit Hennepin County.

I appreciate Duinick's support, including insisting that it continue to Burnsville (rather than a hypothetical modification to end at 98th St). I'm exasperated by McLaughlin's aversion to the line. It's downright bizarre considering that *his own district* has two Orange Line stops, and zero SW or Bottineau stops.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby MNdible » August 9th, 2016, 2:12 pm

Can somebody make us a Peter McLaughlin / Adam Duinick good cop / bad cop meme?

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » August 9th, 2016, 2:13 pm

MNdible wrote:Can somebody make us a Peter McLaughlin / Adam Duinick good cop / bad cop meme?
And what does that make Opat?

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby MNdible » August 9th, 2016, 2:17 pm

Image

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby intercomnut » August 17th, 2016, 10:10 am

CTIB agrees to provide $37.5 million out of its original $45 million commitment for construction of the orange line. Link


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