urbanMSP

DMNA update:

The downtown free fare zone is primarily to save the cost of installing TVMs and card readers at the 2nd Ave (NB) stops. So it's a cool side effect, but probably not a policy change that would extend to the LRT downtown zones, for example.

I don't think these two presentations are online, so I Dropbox'd them:

12/13 Presentation to Richfield City Council: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105 ... d%20CC.pdf

12/13 TAC Presentation: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105 ... %20TAC.pdf

Of the two, the presentation to Richfield has many renderings of 66th Street and 76th Street / Knox Avenue transitway. The TAC presentation is, as one would expect, more technical

What kind of signal and system will the transit way have? I noticed that some of the stations the bus must exit the highway. Will there be signal preemption Or signal priority? Will the bus have its own dedicated lane on interstate 35?


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What kind of signal and system will the transit way have? I noticed that some of the stations the bus must exit the highway. Will there be signal preemption Or signal priority? Will the bus have its own dedicated lane on interstate 35?


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There will be signal preemption at some intersections along the route. The buses will be able to use the toll/high occupancy vehicle lanes between downtown and 46th St. South of there, they'll move to the outside lanes and use bus-only shoulders where they're available.

Why wouldn't they use the HOT lanes south of 46th?

I wonder if that will cause a traffic jam south of 46 street. Having the buses go from the center of the highway all the way to the outer side might take some time.


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Why wouldn't they use the HOT lanes south of 46th?

All stations south of 46th are "inline" or "offline," meaning they're accessed by exiting the highway. If traffic is light enough that they'd be able to make that weave from on ramp to HOT lane to off ramp, traffic probably isn't bad enough for use of the HOT lanes to be worth it.

I wonder if that will cause a traffic jam south of 46 street. Having the buses go from the center of the highway all the way to the outer side might take some time.

From what I've heard from MT staff, the distance between 46th Street and 66th Street is long enough that buses should be able to move over relatively easily.

Remember that 46th and 66th are on opposite sides of the Crosstown Commons, so the stations are more like 30 blocks apart than the 20 blocks, and that the 35W mainline is only three lanes wide through there. So buses have almost three miles to make two lane changes. (Also, it really really seems like there should be a Diamond Lake Road station.)

What I'm more concerned about from a delays perspective is the two left turns that NB buses have to make to get to and from the Knox Avenue stations, and the weird knot that SB buses make to get to 98th St.

Is it actually the official plan NOT to use the HOT lanes, or is that just speculation? I understand the weaving issue. It's more than a mile between stations, so it seems like there would be some advantage to using them. Even if traffic is heavy, a bus is a pretty effective wedge.

The bridges at 66th, 76th, and American Boulevard are all rebuilt/new within the last two decades. I can't believe we didn't provide space for interior ramps/stations when these bridges were built.

The bridges at 66th, 76th, and American Boulevard are all rebuilt/new within the last two decades. I can't believe we didn't provide space for interior ramps/stations when these bridges were built.

Disappointed? Yes. Can't believe? That's ignoring the realities of US politics in the last two decades.

I'm not sure why we expect that transit planners should have better crystal balls than everybody else in the entire world. I know that casting judgement with 20/20 hindsight is, like, the official pastime of this board. But still.

Is it actually the official plan NOT to use the HOT lanes, or is that just speculation? I understand the weaving issue. It's more than a mile between stations, so it seems like there would be some advantage to using them. Even if traffic is heavy, a bus is a pretty effective wedge.

Yes, the plan is to use the bus only shoulders between 66th and 76th. There is no bus-only shoulder between 82nd and 98th, but it might be considered in future expansion. There also aren't any bus shoulders south of 98th St.

https://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites ... ersion.pdf - page 29

So essentially, the breakdown is:

2nd St N - S 12th St - bus lanes
12th St - 46th St - bus entrance ramp/HOT lanes
46th St - 66th St - mixed traffic
66th St - 76th St - bus only shoulder
76th St - 98th St - mixed traffic? (except transit only underpass at 494)
98th St - Hwy 13 - mixed traffic?

There are HOT lanes along most of the corridor, but I'm not sure if it is really feasible to use them south of 82nd, especially between there and 98th.

Green line extension could easily donate a few bridges to help the Orange line from having such a huge time delay during rush hour. At grade weaving for the busses is not a long term solution. Is there ANY discussion of building bridges for busses to cross at a different grade so they can go from HOV lane to shoulder lane? Maybe by 2040, or is this line expected to have low ridership and won't be able to attract much funds for improvements?

Really, the long term solution needs to be HO/T exit ramps at 76th St and American or 82nd St, median stations at 66th and 98th, and a rebuilt interchange at Highway 13. Transit improvements in the corridor don't make sense by themselves. It is necessary that they are coordinated with highway construction projects to reduce costs and impacts.

Unfortunately, the Orange Line budget is a small cobbling together of limited funds and is dependent upon previous smaller scale projects.

The current transit funding is pretty much being taken by the Green and Blue line extensions, and to a smaller extent, the Gold Line. If the CTIB dissolve goes through, and Hennepin County increases the transportation sales tax to .5%, then there will be a much larger pot of money to take from. Also, the money (for better or for worse) will be able to be used on road projects, meaning that Hennepin County could advance highway expansions, like 35W through Bloomington.

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With regards to the weaving issue, the 46th to 66th weave is not significant. The bus will have to make two lane changes in a distance of about three miles, which is quite reasonable. Additionally, the lanes on 35W through the Crosstown Commons rarely backup since the reconstruction project.

The latest project update: http://metroorangeline.cmail2.com/t/Vie ... 32AAFB68BF

Not really any new information this time around. Still need that bonding bill to come through with the final piece of the pie.

Some preliminary work staging information is up, looks like there will be some pretty significant detours (for both cars and various bus routes) over the next four years.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projec ... nneapolis/

Some preliminary work staging information is up, looks like there will be some pretty significant detours (for both cars and various bus routes) over the next four years.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projec ... nneapolis/

Wow, going to be some staggering, long lasting impacts from this project. I expected as much but the scope and duration is pretty extensive.

This is going to be very very ugly for a very long time with little to no alternatives for getting in to / out of this part of south Minneapolis quickly...

The detour on the 2 when the Franklin Ave bridge is closed will be a nightmare. The congestion on 15th could set it back a long way at rush.