Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

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Tcmetro
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Tcmetro » July 29th, 2018, 11:41 am

I believe the want is for direct access to the redevelopment area, so likely off 35W, and hopefully not a freeway armpit like they were considering before.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby twincitizen » July 29th, 2018, 8:18 pm

I've always liked the idea of the Orange Line having a "local tail", basically offering local (or aBRT-style) service between Burnsville Center and the current planned terminus near Heart of the City. From 13/Nicollet, I'd go south on Nicollet, stopping every 1/2 mile at major intersections down to 42 (or McAndrews Rd) to swing west and terminate at the mall.

No, the Orange Line absolutely should not continue to Lakeville Kenrick P&R. There's just no demand for all-day service.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » July 30th, 2018, 1:16 am

twincitizen wrote:
July 29th, 2018, 8:18 pm
No, the Orange Line absolutely should not continue to Lakeville Kenrick P&R. There's just no demand for all-day service.
I care less about the parking ramp and more about Kenwood Trail where people actually live and work. But just to play policymaker for a moment, I would require the Lakeville City Council to remove their hostile stance towards passenger rail on the Dan Patch Line on their legislative priorities. They don't need to support it, but they need to have a much more neutral tone since they represent people who oppose it and support it. We shouldn't build a project such as the Orange Line into their community if they're that hostile towards rail transit. If it were up to me there would be no Kenrick Park & Ride and Route 467 until they remove they're ignorant and one-sided stance towards rail.

But hey, at least they were smart enough to drop the idea of extending the Orange Line to I-35 & County Road 70.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Bakken2016 » August 20th, 2018, 1:17 pm

I assume that the Orange Line from downtown to the 515 will be quicker to get to Southdale than taking the 6 from downtown and vice versa?

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Tcmetro » August 20th, 2018, 2:07 pm

Seems that the 6 via Xerxes is about 39 mins midday. 515 from Southdale to 35W is 7 mins and Orange Line from 66th to 7th would probably be 12-15 minutes, so even if the wait is 15 minutes, 515+Orange is faster.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » September 11th, 2018, 2:52 pm

Survey results from the South Bloomington Transit Center station improvements-https://www.bloomingtonmn.gov/sites/def ... esults.pdf

There will be an open house for this station plan on October 1st-https://www.bloomingtonmn.gov/plan/98th ... -area-plan. I would attend, but I'll be on the train from Chicago to St. Paul when this is going on.

At what point was the timeline for this project setback two years? Didn't seem long ago they were projecting the first phase of the Orange Line to open in 2019, and second phase in 2021. Why even bother putting projections for opening when we seem to be way off. Remember when Southwest LRT was supposed to open in 2015? Good times.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby sdho » September 12th, 2018, 10:20 am

Tcmetro wrote:
August 20th, 2018, 2:07 pm
Seems that the 6 via Xerxes is about 39 mins midday. 515 from Southdale to 35W is 7 mins and Orange Line from 66th to 7th would probably be 12-15 minutes, so even if the wait is 15 minutes, 515+Orange is faster.
Edina has been going on about a Southdale circulator for some time. Until we have proper rapid transit to Southdale, would be cool if that hopped over to 35W/66th St to provide regular access to Orange Line. (Would presumably be less than 7 minutes each way since it'd likely be non-stop between Xerxes and 35)

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Silophant » September 12th, 2018, 10:27 am

I believe the timeline was pushed back when the overall 35W construction project was pushed back. Doesn't really make sense to start running the fast buses when they won't be fast yet because they're going through a construction site.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » September 12th, 2018, 2:38 pm

It may not have the speed yet, but it would still be nice to have frequent, all-day service along the corridor instead of what we have now.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby BoredAgain » September 13th, 2018, 12:42 pm

DanPatchToget wrote:
September 12th, 2018, 2:38 pm
It may not have the speed yet, but it would still be nice to have frequent, all-day service along the corridor instead of what we have now.
If they can't reach the planned speeds, then they would need more buses and more drivers to meet the original frequency. That might not be possible.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » September 13th, 2018, 12:56 pm

BoredAgain wrote:
September 13th, 2018, 12:42 pm
DanPatchToget wrote:
September 12th, 2018, 2:38 pm
It may not have the speed yet, but it would still be nice to have frequent, all-day service along the corridor instead of what we have now.
If they can't reach the planned speeds, then they would need more buses and more drivers to meet the original frequency. That might not be possible.
Aren't there spare buses that can be used in addition to the buses that would be ordered? I've seen regular buses used on the Red Line and the A Line during the State Fair. But yes driver shortage would be a problem, and I'm concerned it will still be a problem when the Orange Line begins operation.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby MSPtoMKE » September 13th, 2018, 3:15 pm

It’s also possible that the Lake St. station and direct access ramps to downtown won’t be open until near the end of the I-35W project, both of which are pretty key parts of the line. Instead of opening the Orange Line before construction was finished, they decided to add weekend service to route 535 now, not in 2019. Seems like a reasonable decision to me. Opening the Orange Line to fanfare while it is still half-baked doesn’t seem like a good way to draw riders to it.
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » September 13th, 2018, 4:31 pm

MSPtoMKE wrote:
September 13th, 2018, 3:15 pm
It’s also possible that the Lake St. station and direct access ramps to downtown won’t be open until near the end of the I-35W project, both of which are pretty key parts of the line. Instead of opening the Orange Line before construction was finished, they decided to add weekend service to route 535 now, not in 2019. Seems like a reasonable decision to me. Opening the Orange Line to fanfare while it is still half-baked doesn’t seem like a good way to draw riders to it.
It’s nice that the 535 has weekend service, but it’s nowhere near the frequency of the what the Orange Line will be. Ditto for weekdays but to a lesser extent. And of course the 535 doesn’t go to Burnsville (yes I’m aware of the 465).

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby MSPtoMKE » September 13th, 2018, 4:50 pm

Well, it is also every 15 minutes midday on weekdays, the same as planned Orange Line service. Yes, evening and weekend service is less than what will be offered, but it is still a significant improvement. Keep in mind that the I-35W bridge over the Minnesota River will start construction soon as well, further complicating extending service to Burnsville.
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » September 14th, 2018, 2:01 am

The 15 minute frequency is north of Knox Avenue Park & Ride, everywhere south is 30 minute frequency.

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sdho
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby sdho » September 14th, 2018, 1:13 pm

MSPtoMKE wrote:
September 13th, 2018, 4:50 pm
Well, it is also every 15 minutes midday on weekdays, the same as planned Orange Line service.
OL is 15 minutes off-peak/weekends, 10 minutes during rush hour. 535 is every 15 at best (or every 30 in Bloomington as others have noted).

On a personal level, I'm about equidistant to 76th/Knox or 66th St Station and I find the Knox thing really disorienting. Some of them go to the cul-de-sac, some of them stop on 76th. I know it's not that hard to look up, but the unreliability of where it is going to be from time to time is kind of stressful.

But in general I agree it is bad to do a rollout now with so much road construction ongoing and transit advantage minimal if at all. Too expensive to staff, and would look like a big expensive failure to transit critics.

If they had the money, though, it would be nice to get the stations in even before the actual buses and service start. There are shelters for the 535, but the planned OL ones are much better.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » September 14th, 2018, 2:21 pm

sdho wrote:
September 14th, 2018, 1:13 pm
MSPtoMKE wrote:
September 13th, 2018, 4:50 pm
Well, it is also every 15 minutes midday on weekdays, the same as planned Orange Line service.
OL is 15 minutes off-peak/weekends, 10 minutes during rush hour. 535 is every 15 at best (or every 30 in Bloomington as others have noted).

On a personal level, I'm about equidistant to 76th/Knox or 66th St Station and I find the Knox thing really disorienting. Some of them go to the cul-de-sac, some of them stop on 76th. I know it's not that hard to look up, but the unreliability of where it is going to be from time to time is kind of stressful.

But in general I agree it is bad to do a rollout now with so much road construction ongoing and transit advantage minimal if at all. Too expensive to staff, and would look like a big expensive failure to transit critics.

If they had the money, though, it would be nice to get the stations in even before the actual buses and service start. There are shelters for the 535, but the planned OL ones are much better.
Speaking of the Knox Avenue stop, it would be nice if the 539 waited until after the 535 left so people who are connecting don't have to rush. I got off the 535 southbound to connect with the 539 to Normandale Village and just as I was approaching the bus on my bike it drove away even when I waved at the front door. I somehow managed to catch it at the Best Buy stop.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby twincitizen » September 25th, 2018, 3:55 pm

Orange Line Project Update: http://metroorangeline.cmail20.com/t/Vi ... 32AAFB68BF

Bloomington did some station area planning for 98th Street Station and will present proposed recommendations at an open house on Monday 10/1: https://www.bloomingtonmn.gov/plan/98th ... -area-plan

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Qhaberl » September 26th, 2018, 7:17 am

Why didn’t they make all of the Orange line stations inline station? How much time is going to be wasted exiting and re-entering the freeway?


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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby niaxilin » September 26th, 2018, 8:21 am

I posted that same comment about the 98th Street station. It didn't even make it into the comments summary, so they must not be able/willing to address it. This station is the worst, because the bus not only gets off the interstate, but the Southbound then takes a left (at a stoplight), another stoplight, a right, a right, a right, a left (stoplight), and finally a right, before getting back on again.


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