Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
DanPatchToget
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby DanPatchToget » June 19th, 2018, 11:59 am

Inexcusable, but thats reality with our process. Any transit supporters in the state and federal government need to change the rules to make the process quicker. However we also need a ballot in the Twin Cities region, and maybe even the whole state, to get substantial funding for transit. It worked in Los Angeles, Denver, Seattle, and Salt Lake City and look how much they've expanded their rail transit. And if the ballot fails then we try again.

If Riverview is anything like Southwest then this process is going to drag out for a long time. Why even bother asking baby boomers what they think when a lot of them will be dead by the time this gets finished? Sorry to be so dark, and I'm not actually advocating for ignoring the elderly's opinions on this, I'm just making a point on how unreasonably long this is.

Bakken2016
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Bakken2016 » June 19th, 2018, 12:01 pm

tmart wrote:
June 19th, 2018, 11:42 am
Ten years before shovels hit the ground on an 11-mile streetcar at-grade? And that's assuming nothing goes wrong!

We have a serious problem with our process. SWLRT was proposed in 1988(!) and began planning in earnest in 2002. 16 years and counting of non-construction work. Riverview, in the very best case, will be 10 years. Is the rule of thumb one year of planning per mile?

Perhaps it's time for transit advocates to shift from pushing for individual projects, to pushing for reform that will allow these projects to get up and running under a reasonable timeframe. It's no wonder we don't have the political will for these projects when five gubernatorial terms separate the proposal from the revenue service.
Not that it should take this long, do remember that it is not a traditional streetcar, it is LRT with some street running, like MUNI in San Fran.

Qhaberl
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Qhaberl » June 19th, 2018, 12:14 pm

tmart wrote:

Perhaps it's time for transit advocates to shift from pushing for individual projects, to pushing for reform that will allow these projects to get up and running under a reasonable timeframe. It's no wonder we don't have the political will for these projects when five gubernatorial terms separate the proposal from the revenue service.



I think so. I would be more than happy to help. This is absolutely ridiculous. Like someone said in an earlier post, I don’t blame the legislators for not wanting to put funding toward a project that may or may not be billed even 10 years later.

It’s definitely time that some of us transit advocate stand up and say something, not that we haven’t, but it’s time we be louder.


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Bakken2016
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Bakken2016 » June 19th, 2018, 12:15 pm

Qhaberl wrote:
June 19th, 2018, 12:14 pm
tmart wrote:

Perhaps it's time for transit advocates to shift from pushing for individual projects, to pushing for reform that will allow these projects to get up and running under a reasonable timeframe. It's no wonder we don't have the political will for these projects when five gubernatorial terms separate the proposal from the revenue service.



I think so. I would be more than happy to help. This is absolutely ridiculous. Like someone said in an earlier post, I don’t blame the legislators for not wanting to put funding toward a project that may or may not be billed even 10 years later.

It’s definitely time that some of us transit advocate stand up and say something, not that we haven’t, but it’s time we be louder.


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I'd join too. LET"S GET LOUD!

Bakken2016
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Bakken2016 » June 19th, 2018, 12:23 pm

Update to why it has been pushed back. I applaud them for being so quick to answer my questions with detailed answers.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Bakken2016
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Bakken2016 » June 19th, 2018, 12:26 pm

DanPatchToget wrote:
June 19th, 2018, 11:59 am
Inexcusable, but thats reality with our process. Any transit supporters in the state and federal government need to change the rules to make the process quicker. However we also need a ballot in the Twin Cities region, and maybe even the whole state, to get substantial funding for transit. It worked in Los Angeles, Denver, Seattle, and Salt Lake City and look how much they've expanded their rail transit. And if the ballot fails then we try again.

If Riverview is anything like Southwest then this process is going to drag out for a long time. Why even bother asking baby boomers what they think when a lot of them will be dead by the time this gets finished? Sorry to be so dark, and I'm not actually advocating for ignoring the elderly's opinions on this, I'm just making a point on how unreasonably long this is.
If I remember correctly, we are not allowed to do ballot measures since the Met Council has it set up based on receiving transit funding from the Metro counties based on sales tax.

A Metro Wide sales tax was implemented while CTIB was in effect, but we saw how well that went. I think the counties raising sales tax even a bit higher would work better in the long run.

Tcmetro
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Tcmetro » June 19th, 2018, 12:47 pm

A 10 year planning period is really a long time. 10 years from beginning of AA to opening is much more reasonable, and really should be considered a maximum.

Really all that is left at this point is performing engineering and design work in the corridor and aquiring any needed properties. That really shouldn't take more than a few years.

tmart
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby tmart » June 19th, 2018, 1:08 pm

Tcmetro wrote:
June 19th, 2018, 12:47 pm
A 10 year planning period is really a long time. 10 years from beginning of AA to opening is much more reasonable, and really should be considered a maximum.
It's not even a ten-year planning period--it's ten more years! It's already been more than five years since the city requested a rail study for the corridor. Is the local planning process really that different from the federal one? Was there work we could or should have been doing in the last five years to prepare for the environmental review and the federal matching application?

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Bob Stinson's Ghost
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Bob Stinson's Ghost » June 19th, 2018, 1:21 pm

What's a "Locally Preferred Alternative"?

Bakken2016
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Bakken2016 » June 19th, 2018, 1:40 pm

Bob Stinson's Ghost wrote:
June 19th, 2018, 1:21 pm
What's a "Locally Preferred Alternative"?
So they do a study to determine the mode of transit and route of transit. They bring about 6 alternatives to the public, the public weighs in, and then the county chooses the LPA. Which for this project is a Modern Streetcar(basically light rail) running via West 7th and Highway 5, connecting with both Blue and Green Line.

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mamundsen
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby mamundsen » June 19th, 2018, 2:21 pm

This is the official LPA Map: https://www.ramseycounty.us/sites/defau ... %20map.pdf

This is the LPA flyer with a little extra info: http://riverviewcorridor.com/wp-content ... 10918.pdf

Anyone know how to image capture a pdf?

Bakken2016
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Bakken2016 » June 19th, 2018, 2:40 pm

mamundsen wrote:
June 19th, 2018, 2:21 pm
This is the official LPA Map: https://www.ramseycounty.us/sites/defau ... %20map.pdf

This is the LPA flyer with a little extra info: http://riverviewcorridor.com/wp-content ... 10918.pdf

Anyone know how to image capture a pdf?
I do, want do you want captured? Most computers have a built in screen capture tool.

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Bob Stinson's Ghost
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Bob Stinson's Ghost » June 19th, 2018, 4:50 pm

Why is this light rail project being marketed as a streetcar line?

Bakken2016
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Bakken2016 » June 19th, 2018, 5:15 pm

Bob Stinson's Ghost wrote:Why is this light rail project being marketed as a streetcar line?
Im pretty sure it’s a political thing.


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Silophant
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Silophant » June 19th, 2018, 5:17 pm

There's a portion on W. 7th (around Smith Ave, I believe) that will run in mixed traffic, since the neighborhood refuses to give up their precious street parking.

Tcmetro
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Tcmetro » June 19th, 2018, 5:31 pm

The next step of the project will consider the technical feasibility of using the CP Spur, which IMO would allow for TOD on both sides of the line between Victoria Park and Sibley Plaza.

DanPatchToget
Rice Park
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby DanPatchToget » June 20th, 2018, 7:38 am

Here's what our good buddies at Center of the American Experiment have to say about Riverview:
https://www.americanexperiment.org/2018 ... streetcar/

Bakken2016
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Bakken2016 » June 20th, 2018, 7:44 am

DanPatchToget wrote:
June 20th, 2018, 7:38 am
Here's what our good buddies at Center of the American Experiment have to say about Riverview:
https://www.americanexperiment.org/2018 ... streetcar/
They speak for upper middle class white people, they don't represent the diversity of Ramsey county or the priorities of Ramsey county. I would suggest not clicking on this article and giving them views.

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Nick
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Nick » June 20th, 2018, 8:04 am

Counterpoint: the project isn’t very good

Bakken2016
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Re: Riverview Corridor Streetcar

Postby Bakken2016 » June 20th, 2018, 8:06 am

Nick wrote:Counterpoint: the project isn’t very good
What would you suggest instead? Cause they noted that building lightrail would have only shaved a minute off the running time.


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