Park and Rides

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
Tcmetro
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Park and Rides

Postby Tcmetro » August 9th, 2012, 11:29 am

A number of new park and rides are in the pipeline:

36/Rice St - 280 stalls, $2.8 million, opening in December. New Route 263 will provide 7 trips each way to Downtown Minneapolis.
http://www.metrotransit.org/TransitArti ... cleid=1032
http://metrotransit.org/highway-36-rice ... -ride.aspx

Maplewood Mall Ramp - 1000 stalls, $13.9 million, opening in November.
http://metrotransit.org/maplewood-mall-park-ride.aspx

610/Noble Pkwy - 1000 stalls, $10 million, opens Fall 2013, replaces existing 511 space lot located across the street.
http://metrotransit.org/highway-610-nob ... -ride.aspx

35E/Co Rd E - 281 spaces, opening 2014, will feature an on-ramp stop for inbound buses.
http://councilmeetings.metc.state.mn.us ... 12_214.pdf
http://councilmeetings.metc.state.mn.us ... tation.pdf

35E/Co Rd 14 - appx. 300 spaces, opening 2014
http://councilmeetings.metc.state.mn.us ... 12_214.pdf

East Creek Ramp Expansion - East Creek closing in September for ramp construction, IIRC appx. 500-600 spaces

Marshall Road/169 - Scott County purchased the old Denny Hecker dealership, converting the building into a garage, adding 500 or so space park and ride.

Rosemount Station - Construction will start soon on a new 150-250 space park and ride at 145th St and Hwy 3.

Also, Rosedale park and ride will be closing at the end of the year, and the Southdale park and ride will be replaced with the proposed apartment project. Metro Transit is planning new park and rides at 62/Penn, American/35W (when Knox P&R is closed), and 94/Manning. Maple Grove is also planning expansion of the new Maple Grove Parkway station, and was unsuccessful in getting state bonds for the project. SW Transit is planning a new lot at Pioneer Trail and 169.

There is a lot of money being poured into the park and ride system, but is the number of downtown commuters and university students growing at a high enough rate to ensure that the new spaces will be used???

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mattaudio
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Re: Park and Rides

Postby mattaudio » August 9th, 2012, 11:48 am

I wonder how far that $40-60 million (at least) would go to building out quality arterial BRT in the core cities instead of creating free car storage facilities. Does the additional cost of express bus fare cover the built-in subsidy of car storage?

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mattaudio
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Re: Park and Rides

Postby mattaudio » August 9th, 2012, 11:50 am

Back of the napkin math says it does not.... Over 30 years, the average cost per spot is $1.50 to $2 per workday.

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LRV Op Dude
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Re: Park and Rides

Postby LRV Op Dude » August 9th, 2012, 12:19 pm

At Transportation Committee, March 28, 2011 is a interesting informational meeting about Park and Rides. Click on Park and Rides Survey Update
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Re: Park and Rides

Postby LRV Op Dude » July 1st, 2013, 5:12 pm

Image
The new Maplewood Mall Transit Center and Park & Ride opened today
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twincitizen
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Re: Park and Rides

Postby twincitizen » July 1st, 2013, 7:54 pm

Thanks for the update. I now have two reasons to swing by my old stomping grounds of the Maplewood Mall area. The other is a Pizza Ranch.

talindsay
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Re: Park and Rides

Postby talindsay » July 2nd, 2013, 7:41 am

Thanks for the update. I now have two reasons to swing by my old stomping grounds of the Maplewood Mall area. The other is a Pizza Ranch.
Wow, if Pizza Ranch is the best thing near the Maplewood Mall they might not need that fancy park and ride.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Park and Rides

Postby RailBaronYarr » July 2nd, 2013, 7:59 am

Back of the napkin math says it does not.... Over 30 years, the average cost per spot is $1.50 to $2 per workday.
Keep in mind that most people riding the express buses are using the monthly unlimited ride passes (many are subsidized by an additional $20/month by their employers) - they're not paying the extra fare, typically.

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Re: Park and Rides

Postby MNdible » July 2nd, 2013, 8:48 am

In the real world in which we actually live in, in which a large portion of the country's residents live in areas that can't be efficiently/directly served by transit:

Would you rather subsidize park-and-rides in the suburbs? Or would you rather increase the freeways leading into downtown and build lots of new parking there? Or would you rather that employers double down on suburban corporate campuses with vast fields of parking?

The lesser of those evils is pretty clear to me.

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mattaudio
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Re: Park and Rides

Postby mattaudio » July 2nd, 2013, 8:52 am

That's a false choice. All three of your options exist only with massive subsidies.

If we stopped subsidizing park and rides, urban freeway commutes, and suburban corporate campuses (directly and indirectly) then we'd get a different outcome. Something more in line with the traditional development pattern that humanity had perfected over the course of thousands of years, albeit including the mobility gains of the automobile (up to the point of subsidized gains, which we're currently far past).

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Park and Rides

Postby RailBaronYarr » July 2nd, 2013, 9:05 am

Both of you are right, obviously. MNdible is clearly speaking in the real, political (and car-dominated cultural view of things) world we live in it is unlikely that we'll see a serious reduction in both freeway subsidization/expansion (which is happening despite all these expensive P&Rs) AND a serious reduction in suburban development subsidization (direct: money thrown at companies to locate in a location, indirect: land tax values and lack of carbon pricing schemes that make such development economically unrealistic). At least not in the next 0-10 years, on a metro-wide scale (hey Met Council, this is your job!).

mattaudio is right that this is a false choice to present, and if we people on this forum can't even envision it being a political reality to start making these shifts, how is anyone else going to be able to do so??? At the very least, it should be a consideration to charge fees for parking in these P&Rs to separate O&M of transit vs parking to help paint a better picture on MT's budget, as well as reveal true cost choices for said commuters. If MT and Minneapolis/St Paul coordinated on this effort and the municipal ramps downtown increased their rates as well, then both become more financially viable to run and we'd see a (perhaps slight) shift in where/how people choose to live in response to this.

So I agree that building the P&Rs is preferred over more freeway expansion/subsidized downtown parking (cuz we all know that people will drive downtown but they won't pay market rates to store their cars in garages). But we can at least do something to make our choices more realistic and help frame the discussion differently to people who automatically assume the answer is more lanes OR more giant parking ramps.

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Re: Park and Rides

Postby MNdible » July 2nd, 2013, 9:08 am

Until you convince the rest of the people that you're right, and they're wrong, it's not a false choice. It's the reality. We live in a democracy, and people elect representatives that represent their perceived best interests, and people vote every day with their dollars and their feet.

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mattaudio
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Re: Park and Rides

Postby mattaudio » July 2nd, 2013, 9:14 am

Things are going to change very quickly. We're too broke to be throwing good money in so many bad directions at the same time. In the future, government will actually be forced to look at the financial productivity of their investments.

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Re: Park and Rides

Postby MNdible » July 2nd, 2013, 9:29 am



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