Park and Portland Avenues

[UptownSport]

yep riding sidewalks.....dont see many cars doing that or riding against traffic in a bkie lane no less

And here we are ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48lxqgdo8iw

[mplser]

I have to admit i thought the reports of people using the bike lane as an express driving lane were extremely exhaggerated because, well, it sounds so stupid. Who would do that? last night AT NIGHT AFTER DARK i witnessed someone zooming by traffic at about 40-45 mph in the bike lane. If there was a bicyclist in that lane i doubt they would have spotted them until they were flying over their windshield. seems to me there needs to be more separation of this bike lane.

[mattaudio]

Yep I keep seeing it too! Honestly based on the way people drive in that lane, my gut says it's about half people recklessly speeding and half people who are confused. Both could easily be fixed by occasional bollards/planters at the start of the block to prevent cars from driving on it for more than a block.

[UptownSport]

They had a bike lane down Hennepin's center- I used to nearly get killed every time!!!
People would turn left on Green; they'd look for oncoming, pedestrians, then go.
They didn't look for a bicycle that was overtaking them on the left ...

Can't really blame them; just not something motorists come across, in some cases ever.
A motorist from small town Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin etc., has never had any reference to bicycle lanes, and is already intimidated by downtown (or 'Minneapolis' as we're referred to)traffic.

[Nathan]

yep riding sidewalks.....dont see many cars doing that or riding against traffic in a bkie lane no less

This annoys me so much because it just proves the point that bicycling infrastructure is so poor. Of course cars don't ride on the sidewalk because EVERYTHING is set up for them. If there was extensive bicycle infrastructure you wouldn't have people riding on the sidewalk. You just point out why we need it. If the road system was as lacking as the bike system you would have more vigilante drivers I guarantee it. Oh you mean I have a path for 5 miles then there is a parking lot, and I have to cross two major intersections with no right of way and then I have 2 miles of trail again? I'm sure drivers would love that.

[ECtransplant]

I saw a car driving on the sidewalk in uptown a few weeks ago. And people here have already talked about the cars speeding down the new bike lanes.

[UptownSport]

Whether a bicyclist does or doesn't stop for a light, stop sign or is just plain reckless has no bearing on motor vehicles following laws and being courteous. *Most* people are doing their best while driving or biking, and the few that aren't shouldn't paint either bunch as scofflaws!

Had anyone heard of this????? (CLOSING Park & Portland) Thank God for the county having control over the city on these two roads!

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 34061.html

[NickP]

Thanks for saying that Uptown sport. ^^^ I agree, the wide swath descriptions are getting a bit tiresome.

[lordmoke]

Park and Portland bridges over I-94 will be closed and redecked this summer, May to September:

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/construction ... ctlist.pdf

[mamundsen]

Just when I think my daily commute will be as ok as possible on 94.

[UptownSport]

Park and Portland bridges over I-94 will be closed and redecked this summer, May to September:

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/construction ... ctlist.pdf

They obliterated both decks, one still has the beams, the other just abutments and piers

[RailBaronYarr]

Any chance they add a full deck land bridge, extend it to Chicago, and do some value capture per some of David Levinson and his class' proposals? Reconnect Elliot Park and Ventura Village?

[mattaudio]

This is purely a maintenance project. But I think decking the freeway would be a PERFECT use of TIF, since after all it's adding parcels back to the tax rolls. And that's coming from a major TIF critic. I'm thinking the city/county could provide the footings/piers for decking, but then developers attach to the top of the piers. Just as if they're building on top of underground parking.

[mulad]

I generally like the idea of decking the freeway in at least one spot near downtown Minneapolis, but I'm curious -- Just as bridges typically have to be replaced after 50-100 years, would the same be true of a deck built for supporting a building? Would they try to design it to last longer, or would that just end up making the whole endeavor totally cost-prohibitive? Would anyone build or buy a building put on a freeway deck that has a definite shelf life?

To an urbanist, I think the trade-off of potentially losing a building or set of buildings after 70 years is probably worthwhile just to help with pedestrian activation, but I'm not sure if you'll ever get the folks who hold the purse-strings to agree.

[UptownSport]

Lowry tunnel doesn't seem to have much issue, nor high rise buildings that're essentially decks stacked one on the other.

Our bridges fail prematurely because they used uncoated re-bar. 2500 years ago Greeks were smart enough to coat their re-bar (with lead) and some of their work still stands, but us 40 years ago ...

[woofner]

Interesting. Let's have a big helping of lead all around!

Matt, I agree with your idea that TIF would be appropriate for freeway decking. However, I'm not sure this is going to be a great location for it. I would suggest starting out with a place that could support a large-scale privately financed development. There was a streets.mn thread about this a while ago, but I'd say that 394 between 4th & 5th is one of the best spots in the city (there would certainly be rationale to omit parking from the building at this location). Another great spot would be the east (or south?) portal of the Lowry Tunnel - the building could front Lyndale and make the interchange nightmare less heinous, and would have great skyline views.

[RailBaronYarr]

To an urbanist, I think the trade-off of potentially losing a building or set of buildings after 70 years is probably worthwhile just to help with pedestrian activation, but I'm not sure if you'll ever get the folks who hold the purse-strings to agree.

Funny, the people with the purse strings are ok building a $700M bridge in Stillwater or forking over $500M to help build a stadium without a tested/proven revenue stream to back it up. But when it comes to things like this it's way too 'risky'.

[RailBaronYarr]

Interesting. Let's have a big helping of lead all around!

Matt, I agree with your idea that TIF would be appropriate for freeway decking. However, I'm not sure this is going to be a great location for it. I would suggest starting out with a place that could support a large-scale privately financed development. There was a streets.mn thread about this a while ago, but I'd say that 394 between 4th & 5th is one of the best spots in the city (there would certainly be rationale to omit parking from the building at this location). Another great spot would be the east (or south?) portal of the Lowry Tunnel - the building could front Lyndale and make the interchange nightmare less heinous, and would have great skyline views.

I don't doubt that there may be better spots based on desirability of land making for an easier ROI for the city/developer. Certainly DTE has enough surface parking to redevelop before a city council member could be convinced land is so desirable that we should finance making more of it. I was just pointing out that since they're re-doing these anyway why the extra cost now (as opposed to possibly re-considering this in 10-20 years) wasn't really evaluated, and Levinson's thread on streets.mn had a full proposal for this very site.

If I had to prioritize, I'd say the south/east end of Lowry Tunnel and Washington/3rd/4th over 35W would be my top 2.

[mamundsen]

This thread could take a whole new turn with the news of the park cutting off Park and Portland near the stadium.

Ha, I just noticed that the new park with be on Park.

[UptownSport]

Interesting. Let's have a big helping of lead all around!

There were alternative's to lead when our infrastructure was built, I'm quite sure, so please don't get stuck on what ancients used.
Point was; ancients were aware of what occurred when reinforcement corroded and expanded.


You can see green coated re-bar (Reinforcement Bar) here:


Coated 'tie-wire' is also used to hold bars together before concrete pour.

Steel rusts, concrete is porous. When steel expands due to rust, the concrete has relatively no 'flexibility', so it just breaks.

You can see myriad examples simple driving under bridges (even recent builds), or google:


The most appropriate outcome of this deficient construction is the Olympic Stadium in Berlin- It's started to crumble