C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby EOst » September 23rd, 2016, 3:02 pm

I don't think moving the C Line from Olson to Glenwood has bearing on that discussion, because the combined frequency of the two doesn't actually benefit anyone. You can't board a Bottineau train from a C Line station, or vice-versa.

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby intercomnut » September 23rd, 2016, 3:05 pm

acs wrote:Personally I think this is a good idea, but doesn't this get back to our other discussion about frequency vs network coverage?
EOst wrote:I don't think moving the C Line from Olson to Glenwood has bearing on that discussion, because the combined frequency of the two doesn't actually benefit anyone. You can't board a Bottineau train from a C Line station, or vice-versa.
Exactly. If BLRT is completed, Olson will still have 10 minute frequencies provided by the Blue Line AND Glenwood will also have 10 minute frequencies to Penn.

It's not a zero-sum game in this case, where coverage comes at the expense of frequency, since CTIB funds Blue Line operations.

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby twincitizen » September 26th, 2016, 7:56 am

Well said. I'm all for concentrating services on fewer streets/branches, but there are good arguments against doing that in this case. Plus the Route 9 already runs on Glenwood (and soon with fewer branches!), so the C Line and Route 9 would overlap service here. That's huge if the Glenwood corridor develops like some think it will.

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby intercomnut » January 22nd, 2017, 9:32 pm

Designs for most of the stations have been posted on the C Line website.

Comments are being solicited until January 31.

Most of the stations stick to what was established in the Station Plan.

New information:
  • The 7th St & 3rd Ave station will be in the right turn lane nearside of 3rd Ave. No bump-out is planned.
  • The 7th St & Park Ave station will be in a bump-out nearside of Park.

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby Qhaberl » January 23rd, 2017, 9:56 am

Might be just me, but the stops look a little small. The sea line is supposed to be articulated buses, correct?


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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby twincitizen » January 23rd, 2017, 12:34 pm

I don't know about articulated buses, but the stations at Park Ave and at 3rd Ave appear to be roughly half a block long. That's more than enough room for two articulated buses, which is good because these stations also serve the 5/D-Line and other routes. For the stations up Penn Avenue, it's pretty unlikely the C-Line and 19 would be there at the same time. FYI - standard buses are 40' long and articulated are about 60'.


Separate thought - I keep trying to think of ways to extend the C Line just a bit further east or south of HCMC. Not too far though, as that would require several additional buses & drivers. Looking at current routes 7, 9, 14, and 22 in this general area, nothing pops out at me as obvious. Again, I'm not looking to extend the C-Line over the entire extent of one of those routes (way too low density), but perhaps another few stops (0.5-1.5 miles) to a specific destination and/or good layover point.

Options
*swing north on Chicago to Washington/Guthrie (or continue on to 7 Corners / West Bank)
*continue on 7th/8th Street to 11th Ave, then swing north to Washington (and Stanton's Condoville) OR south on 11th Ave (like the 14) to Franklin Station.
*trace a bit of the 7 or 22 to West Bank?

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby jebr » January 23rd, 2017, 12:37 pm

I noticed they've also pushed the date for revenue service back to 2019. Not sure if this is new, but either way it's incredibly frustrating that we can't seem to build out an aBRT line every year or two. Hopefully the success of the A Line will push for more of these to be developed and funded ASAP.

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby FISHMANPET » January 23rd, 2017, 12:56 pm

Qhaberl wrote:The sea line is supposed to be articulated buses, correct?
No, but the sea line could use articulated submarines ;)
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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby twincitizen » January 23rd, 2017, 2:24 pm

jebr wrote:I noticed they've also pushed the date for revenue service back to 2019. Not sure if this is new, but either way it's incredibly frustrating that we can't seem to build out an aBRT line every year or two. Hopefully the success of the A Line will push for more of these to be developed and funded ASAP.
It was announced a while back I think, due to a delay in Penn Ave reconstruction, as well as timing up with other reconstruction projects. Hopefully they don't wait until June of 2019, as was done on the A Line (supposed to open Q4 2015, pushed back to June). If they're saying 2019, it won't be any earlier than March (unless they somehow manage December '18), as those months are when bus operator shifts are assigned.

Also, and more importantly, there's still a pretty sizable funding gap for the C Line, with no guarantee that it gets filled by bonding. If the CTIB breakup moves forward, there remains a possibility that Hennepin County could fill that gap with expanded transit funds, but I think the board will be hesitant to fund anything besides the two LRT extensions and Orange Line.

I recommend that everyone keep an eye on the CTIB situation. If it does dissolve and Hennepin County is able to double its transit sales tax to 0.5%, we transit nerds need to put pressure on the Hennepin County board to fund these arterial BRT lines. They're a relative drop in the bucket compared to LRT, but county commissioners have resisted funding them thus far as part of CTIB. Start talking to Marion Greene, Debbie Goettel, Linda Higgins (and ugh, Peter McLaughlin) as soon as the CTIB breakup is official. With 4 (of 7) votes, we can make real, stable aBRT funding a reality!

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby intercomnut » January 23rd, 2017, 3:22 pm

twincitizen wrote:I recommend that everyone keep an eye on the CTIB situation. If it does dissolve and Hennepin County is able to double its transit sales tax to 0.5%, we transit nerds need to put pressure on the Hennepin County board to fund these arterial BRT lines. They're a relative drop in the bucket compared to LRT, but county commissioners have resisted funding them thus far as part of CTIB. Start talking to Marion Greene, Debbie Goettel, Linda Higgins (and ugh, Peter McLaughlin) as soon as the CTIB breakup is official. With 4 (of 7) votes, we can make real, stable aBRT funding a reality!
Hopefully they can fund a large chunk of both capital and operating funding, so that these can be opened without cutting service from other parts of the bus system. Not that it wouldn't be worth it.

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby MNdible » January 23rd, 2017, 3:34 pm

intercomnut wrote:...so that these can be opened without cutting service from other parts of the bus system. Not that it wouldn't be worth it.
Shouldn't we really be taking a harder look at eliminating the underlying local service along these aBRT routes? Yes, they still have some ridership, but how much of that is people waiting at a station and getting on the first bus that comes by, as opposed to really needing a hyper-local service?

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby Tcmetro » January 23rd, 2017, 6:42 pm

In some areas I think it would be smart to consider adding stops (maybe every 1/4-1/3 mile) and eliminating the local route. On the A and C lines the local routes have (or have potential for) variations that have different destinations. For the D line, and perhaps the B & E (Hennepin / Lake) lines replacing the local would be more efficient.

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby mulad » September 15th, 2017, 2:26 pm

Metro Transit is getting a $1.75 million Federal Transit Administration grant to help pay for electric buses on this route.

https://www.transit.dot.gov/about/news/ ... Selections
https://www.transit.dot.gov/funding/gra ... m-projects

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby MNdible » September 15th, 2017, 3:00 pm

Nice. Any idea what type of equipment we're talking about? Miles/charge, recharge time, etc.?

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby Silophant » September 15th, 2017, 9:46 pm

Awesome. I wonder if the $1.75M grant is to cover the full purchase price of 3-4 electric buses to be mixed in on the C Line, or if it's to cover the cost differential to make the whole C Line fleet electric over diesel?

Also, when is this supposed to open, now? I paged back to the beginning of the thread to see that I was the OP, exactly three years ago, and was very excited to see that this was supposed to go into service in late 2016...

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby Tiller » September 16th, 2017, 2:28 am

Silophant wrote:
September 15th, 2017, 9:46 pm
Also, when is this supposed to open, now? I paged back to the beginning of the thread to see that I was the OP, exactly three years ago, and was very excited to see that this was supposed to go into service in late 2016...
:(

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby intercomnut » September 16th, 2017, 3:59 am

Silophant wrote:
September 15th, 2017, 9:46 pm
Awesome. I wonder if the $1.75M grant is to cover the full purchase price of 3-4 electric buses to be mixed in on the C Line, or if it's to cover the cost differential to make the whole C Line fleet electric over diesel?

Also, when is this supposed to open, now? I paged back to the beginning of the thread to see that I was the OP, exactly three years ago, and was very excited to see that this was supposed to go into service in late 2016...
I think early 2019 is the plan now, unfortunately.

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby gopherfan » September 17th, 2017, 4:08 pm

Caught a glimpse of one of the new C Line articulated bus going Southbound on 35W last week near the UofM operating as a route 250! Was driving, so no picture...

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby Silophant » September 17th, 2017, 7:09 pm

Ah, I didn't know they were doing that. I also thought I saw an articulated aBRT-painted bus on 35W a week or so ago, but couldn't figure out what it would be doing.

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Re: C Line - Arterial Rapid Bus & Penn Ave Community Works Project

Postby Silophant » September 25th, 2017, 8:56 pm

Silophant wrote:
September 15th, 2017, 9:46 pm
Awesome. I wonder if the $1.75M grant is to cover the full purchase price of 3-4 electric buses to be mixed in on the C Line, or if it's to cover the cost differential to make the whole C Line fleet electric over diesel?

Also, when is this supposed to open, now? I paged back to the beginning of the thread to see that I was the OP, exactly three years ago, and was very excited to see that this was supposed to go into service in late 2016...
Update: They'll be getting six electric buses for the C Line. For reference, the original study suggested that the C Line would need nine buses, so apparently three will be the standard hybrids.


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