Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

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Silophant
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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby Silophant » July 11th, 2017, 3:31 pm

I have been wondering about that, actually. Cool.

Korh
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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby Korh » July 11th, 2017, 5:36 pm

IIRC CalTrain instead of opting for the FRA crash standard went with the International Union of Railways (UIC) standards and is the reason the FRA gave them a waiver

Although I'm a bit skeptical at the chances of the Dan Patch corridor being electrified. Since it was already brought up I'll use CalTrain as an example, the electrification of the line is at the moment only planned between San Francisco and the San Jose due largely the fact that CalTrain owns the track while Union Pacific owns the rest along the route. I don't know if there was any effort to have the electrification extend further and UP was just unwilling to cooperate, or they had no attention what so ever of extending it but I would of assumed it idea crossed there minds at some points in how much additional ridership they could of added.

I have doubt the rail companies who own the tracks for the Dan Patch corridor would be too willing to add overhead wires on the line, but I'm aware of one project opening in Florida in a few months that if successful might give other rail companies a more favorable view of passenger rail projects (side not if we want to have a discussion topic on that project, would it be safe to put it under the Transportation board or would it be a better fit in Anything Goes)

Overall I see the line a similar appearance and operation to either the A-train that runs from Denton to Dallas TX, or the SMART train that just opened up that runs from Santa Rosa to San Rafael CA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-train_(Texas)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoma%E2 ... il_Transit

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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby seanrichardryan » July 19th, 2017, 8:20 pm

Edina investigates possible Dan Patch commuter rail service
In a policy U-turn, the suburb will hold a public hearing to gauge interest.


http://www.startribune.com/edina-invest ... 435516443/
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MNdible
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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby MNdible » July 20th, 2017, 9:35 am

Am I correct in understanding that there isn't an extant direct connection from Dan Patch into downtown Minneapolis? So that a hypothetical DMU service direct to Target Field Station would require the construction of a new wye somewhere? (Not that this would be a deal breaker.)

David Greene
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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby David Greene » July 20th, 2017, 10:10 am

Doesn't SWLRT provide one via the new junction?

Single track, though, which could be problematic.

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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby twincitizen » July 20th, 2017, 10:49 am

I could envision a DMU service that provides a transfer to SWLRT (at Louisiana / Wooddale Stations...one could reasonably walk to either). At least initially, this would be a terminal station, not continuing downtown due to cost/complications. Probably doesn't cross the MN River either for the same reasons. So it would be a relatively short 9-mile DMU spur from Old Shakopee Rd (SW Bloomington), through Edina, and terminating in St. Louis Park at the SWLRT connection. An extension to continue downtown could be explored in the future. I'm not sure an extension to Burnsville/Lakeville would be worth it, as you'd be cutting right into the Orange Line's ridership shed (assuming future OL extension to Kenrick P&R).

I don't know how cost-effective that would be per-rider, but it would be one of the least expensive to build and operate *something* in this rail corridor. I'd imagine it might compare well to the cost of retrofitting Hwy 100 for BRT service. It should not happen before getting an aBRT line on France Avenue...that needs to be studied ASAP will all of the development in the Southdale area.

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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby David Greene » July 20th, 2017, 12:01 pm

The new junction would send the DMU onto the freight tracks in the Kenilworth corridor. Don't those link up to tracks that go right to Target Field station?

DanPatchToget
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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby DanPatchToget » July 20th, 2017, 3:45 pm

The new connection will go west onto the TCW. It would work if Dan Patch connected with light rail at Louisiana Avenue, but if you want trains to continue to downtown they would have to go north through St. Louis Park and then connect with the BNSF tracks where a rail connection used to be until the 80s.

twincitizen
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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby twincitizen » July 20th, 2017, 4:59 pm

^That's what I thought...they'd have to rebuild the third leg of the "iron triangle" there. Rebuilding that connection wouldn't be super difficult (no ROW challenges at least). I'd guess that would actually be easier than figuring out how to manage the section of track south of there (between SWLRT/TCW tracks and the BNSF junction). Remember, that's the same section that caused a lotta uproar in the SWLRT debate of freight co-location. They did not want to accept more freight trains on this section of track with all the surface crossings, schools, nearby homes, etc.

Hence my suggestion to just end this line with a transfer to SWLRT. Much cheaper to operate a shorter DMU line (fewer trains to purchase, more daily runs per train & operator, etc.) My proposed 9-mile "spur" line could theoretically be operated with relatively minimal equipment & labor costs. I'm not saying it shouldn't ever go downtown, I just think an initial operating segment would be fine without it. As long as it was timed well for SW transfers, I don't think it my concept would even be that much slower. Not to mention, a DMU extension to serve downtown directly would end at Target Field, necessitating a transfer to LRT anyways (or 10 minute walk) if you're headed to the core of downtown.

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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby David Greene » July 20th, 2017, 9:24 pm

Ah, thanks, I had misunderstood the connection. A transfer to SWLRT would definitely be fine as an initial service. I think going north on the CP line is unworkable. Any sense in going west to Chanhassen or Norwood/Young America (N/YA was studied as a commuter corridor)? Maybe too duplicative of SWLRT...

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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby mattaudio » July 21st, 2017, 8:05 am

If you're running DMUs rather than LRVs, it would make far more sense to run north and turn on the BNSF rather than turn onto the TC&W/ex-Milwaukee Road. This was the actual spot that was known as the "iron triangle" in early SWLRT freight reroute planning, and it has a grade that was previously used for rail. https://goo.gl/maps/J9bc659QNhr

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sdho
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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby sdho » August 10th, 2017, 9:36 pm

Edina has a survey asking for feedback (very general at this point) about the Dan Patch line: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/passengerrailengagement

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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby SkyScraperKid » August 14th, 2017, 4:00 pm

Is there a Google map that has the rail line highlighted? It would be really neat to get a better visual on a google map where I can bookmark and keep looking back for reference. Has anyone already done this?

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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby DanPatchToget » August 14th, 2017, 6:48 pm

SkyScraperKid wrote:
August 14th, 2017, 4:00 pm
Is there a Google map that has the rail line highlighted? It would be really neat to get a better visual on a google map where I can bookmark and keep looking back for reference. Has anyone already done this?
Hopefully this link works-https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... 52703&z=10

Includes some trails that could tie in to potential stations.

NickP
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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby NickP » August 15th, 2017, 7:29 am

Thanks Dan. That helps a lot!

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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby Qhaberl » August 15th, 2017, 7:36 am

Why is this called the Dan Patch Corredor?


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David Greene
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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby David Greene » August 15th, 2017, 8:51 am

Dan Patch was a very famous racehorse who raced at the state fair grandstand, among other venues. The proposed line follows the old Dan Patch electric railroad line (formally the MNS), nicknamed so because Patch's owner at the time (Marion Willis Savage, also the namesake of the town) started the railroad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Patch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneapol ... rn_Railway

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Patch_Corridor

Dan Patch Avenue at the state fairgrounds is named for the horse, as is Dan Patch Days celebrated in Savage.

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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby UrsusUrbanicus » August 17th, 2017, 3:32 pm

To boot, the Savage stretch of the line runs right past the former location of the training track that M.W. Savage built for the horse.

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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby DanPatchToget » September 8th, 2017, 5:50 pm

Yesterday was the second "community conversation" on the Dan Patch Corridor in Edina. Here is the report on the first meeting-https://www.edinamn.gov/DocumentCenter/View/3506

Obviously these meetings attract more opposition than supporters, but I'm curious if there are any surveys out there that show what amount of support and opposition there was to the Blue Line, Green Line, their extensions, and the Northstar.

As you can probably tell by my username I'm hoping the transportation commission gives the idea a thumbs up, but I'm guessing no matter what the transportation commission recommends the city council will put it on the back burner instead of making a firm decision of whether to support or oppose passenger rail on this corridor.

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Anondson
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Re: Dan Patch Intercity Regional Passenger Rail

Postby Anondson » September 8th, 2017, 5:58 pm

Edina has a very well organized “pull up the drawbridge” movement.


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