Fantasy maps

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
matt91486
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby matt91486 » April 9th, 2015, 10:45 pm

Could be something either connecting the Blue line eastward - either to the purple line, or maybe up to New Brighton/Arden Hills/Shoreview. Lowry as the corridor, perhaps? NE (Upper NE anyway) and N are the most underserved by the map as of now.

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Tiller
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Tiller » April 24th, 2015, 11:05 pm

-Added crosstown loops around both cities
-Gold for Minneapolis and Silver for St Paul (matches their character and status)
-Both loops have normal and express service. They are always either elevated or along a highway ROW to minimize travel time between stations. They will also have 3-4, not 2, tracks (depending on capacity needs).
-Some of the other lines could/should/would probably have express service as well
-Split the old brown line between two new routes
-SW corridor is now part of the purple, not green, line
-An extension of the Bottineau corridor cleans up the "northtown extension" route
-Still too lazy to finish off the south metro parts (not that there's anything of value there)
-Toying around with a 2nd minneapolis crosstown loop (pretty far into the future, also the last available layer)
-Most gaps between lines would have aBRT/streetcar services. I may take the 2nd Minneapolis loop out for them.

Would you like some cornfields with your tunnels?

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... tezgb_40cY

Mikey
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Mikey » April 25th, 2015, 8:07 am

I really need to update my ideas to google maps from the old photoshopped google map

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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby BoredAgain » April 27th, 2015, 2:37 pm

Tiller wrote:-Added crosstown loops around both cities
-Gold for Minneapolis and Silver for St Paul (matches their character and status)
-Both loops have normal and express service. They are always either elevated or along a highway ROW to minimize travel time between stations. They will also have 3-4, not 2, tracks (depending on capacity needs).
-Some of the other lines could/should/would probably have express service as well
-Split the old brown line between two new routes
-SW corridor is now part of the purple, not green, line
-An extension of the Bottineau corridor cleans up the "northtown extension" route
-Still too lazy to finish off the south metro parts (not that there's anything of value there)
-Toying around with a 2nd minneapolis crosstown loop (pretty far into the future, also the last available layer)
-Most gaps between lines would have aBRT/streetcar services. I may take the 2nd Minneapolis loop out for them.

Would you like some cornfields with your tunnels?

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... tezgb_40cY
Though I understand the concept of a fantasy map, I feel obligated to point out that dedicated ROW in many of those corridors would be unlikely.

Also, I find stop frequency is much to high for some/many corridors. You might want to stop frequently to make it convenient, but travel times would be terrible. Case in point, does the commercial/industrial corner of north Saint Anthony really justify three stops? Your zig-zag through plymouth in an attempt for maximum coverage also would make travel time prohibitive for any voluntary user. And if you live in Plymouth, then you are not likely to be pursuing a car-free lifestyle.

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Tiller
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Tiller » April 27th, 2015, 7:15 pm

The map has two general assumptions. Trains get signal priority over cars (and our signal system gets some needed optimization), and that sufficient funding for things like tunneling and elevating rails is available (larger sales tax). Both are political leaps we aren't close to making, though both help resolve the ROW/Travel time issues.

Any lines with sufficient through-travel demand and a large number of stops would have express service that skips stops, though at this level of detail, determining the lines for which that's justifiable is generally more speculation than not. It's basically providing both local and express services using the same infrastructure.

As far as that Plymouth segment goes (and probably a few other segments as well), that zigzagging is certainly inefficient, and I don't intend on keeping it that way. It's more of a place holder as I look at alternatives.

As far as stop spacing goes, I usually lean towards 1/2 mile spacing & 1/4 mile walk-sheds to provide a local service, justified by grade separation, signal priority (probably the most "fantasy" part of the map), and said complementary express service in some areas.

matt91486
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby matt91486 » April 28th, 2015, 8:24 am

To concentrate on areas I'm most familiar with, I would consolidate your brown line in St. Anthony a bit. There isn't really room for a station at 33rd. I would condense your stations at 33rd and 37th (you have as County 93) into a Central Park station, and have the station based at the parking lot just past City Hall (which is at 34th). There's actually room for it there. And it helps prevent the other stations from being too close together. 37th and 39th are too close even by like Paris Métro standards.

EDIT: I do still think a connector down Lowry would make a lot of sense, you could tie it to the blue line going up France to 36th. Then it could end at Kenzie Terrace, or it could continue and end at like County Road C and Fairview and meet up with those lines.

grant1simons2
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby grant1simons2 » August 30th, 2015, 3:27 pm

My proposal for a Route 8 to accommodate students living in Elliot Park, Marcy-Holmes, Dinkytown, and Downtown (not many there, but faculty) . Would connect MCTC, North Central, the UofMn. Pretty much thought of this because there's no good bus route from an apartment I'm looking at in Elliot Park to MCTC

ImageRoute_8 by grant.simons, on Flickr

mamundsen
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby mamundsen » August 30th, 2015, 5:27 pm

That almost looks like it could be a loop rather than how you have it drawn up. But is one more efficient? I don't know my transit planning dos and don'ts.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby FISHMANPET » August 30th, 2015, 5:49 pm

My gut tells me that demand on either side of campus would be wildly divergent, such that operationally it would be better to split the route at the U. But if demand is overall low enough that you could satisfy all the demand with 15 minute headways, then it wouldn't really matter, because 15 minutes is probably the least frequent you could make that and still have people use it.
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Silophant
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Silophant » August 30th, 2015, 6:01 pm

I wonder if it would be better to have it loop around the other way, cutting the I-94 section and having it run up and down Hennepin instead. Less effective for people going to/from ELP/UMN, but I don't know that there's all that many people doing that.

For the turnaround on the Prospect Park end, you could loop west on Fulton and north on Oak.

Mikey
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Mikey » August 30th, 2015, 8:26 pm

A two-way running loop closed off at either Hennepin or preferably Plymouth/10th could function as a "greater downtown" circulator, connecting all the downtown fringe neighborhoods to each other and the rest of the metro.

I'd consider moving the southern segment to 11th /12th, then continue north along Royalston (SWLRT connection) to 10th

grant1simons2
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby grant1simons2 » August 30th, 2015, 8:41 pm

IT just seems like Elliot Park is severely undeserved in terms of transit unless you're going to North Mpls or beyond..

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Anondson
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Anondson » August 30th, 2015, 9:01 pm

I like the potential this fantasy route has to link up some of Minneapolis's colleges and universities. North Central University is close to this route in Eliot Park, and with a slight adjustment is even serves Augsburg University.

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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Silophant » August 30th, 2015, 9:20 pm

Having it serve Augsburg as well would be great, but how would you get it there? Hop on 94 and then get right back off at Cedar? Jog all the way up to 4th? That interchange really wrecks everything.

grant1simons2
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby grant1simons2 » September 25th, 2015, 12:34 pm

I've started riding the 6 more frequently now that I live in Marcy, and I've noticed one huge annoying issue which you all know. Close stops! And there's always that person who doesn't want to walk those extra 300 feet. The worst place for this is the stop on 4th and Central and 4th and Hennepin. So why not just put a stop in between those? I don't understand why we don't have more bus bulbs in the city. It would fix a lot of time issues with the buses.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... sp=sharing

xandrex
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby xandrex » September 27th, 2015, 4:38 pm

I used to ride the 6 when I lived in Marcy-Holmes and was going to work downtown. Those stops are close (and it's silly that they're like that), but so few people ever seemed to get on/off at the Hennepin stop that I'm surprised it's an issue.

I've actually found that the 6 from downtown going north is actually a pretty reliable route, at least when I was using for a relatively short stretch of mileage. It's certainly more reliable than my 17 route I now take.

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Anondson
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Minnetonka-Lake-France-Cty25

Postby Anondson » January 31st, 2016, 6:12 pm

I've long wished to have Minnetonka Blvd's 4-Lane-Death-Road (between County 25 and TH100) converted to a safer 3-lane. Doing it probably wouldn't happen because by the time Minnetonka nears TH100 it is carrying over 18,000 vehicles. I'm pretty sure Saint Louis Park's leaders couldn't support doing that with much vehicle traffic. Minnetonka Blvd happens to carry thousands of vehicles just traveling between Minneapolis' Lakes/Uptown and TH100. I want to divert as much of those drivers over to TH7/County25 so that Minnetonka Blvd can receive a 4-3 conversion.

I see part of the solution is fixing how Minnetonka intersects the France/Lake/County25 intersection. Doing it well I believe will also open developable land and keeps the street retail vibrant. So I came up with this fantasy map of the Minnetonka/Lake/France/County25 intersection.

ImageMinnetonka-Lake-France-Cty25 by Eric Anondson, on Flickr

I felt leaving the spot of Open Space would keep open a line of sight down to Minnetonka Blvd.'s retail district as well as give a space for public art and wayfinding signage. The turn lane from Cty25 to France was made longer and conceivable made longer still.

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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby froggie » February 1st, 2016, 7:30 am

Not bad. I'm not convinced that you'd be able to keep a sharp turn at Minnetonka & Inglewood, but the basic concept isn't bad.

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Anondson
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Anondson » February 1st, 2016, 8:21 am

The 90° turn would be sharp, but it is about the same that thousands of vehicles take at Lake/Lagoon and Hennepin.

You know, I probably should have put in a small right turn lane where Minnetonka meets Cty25 and given Minnetonka two lanes for the build up of traffic waiting at the long light to turn left to go to Minneapolis.

Those red stripes I thought could be on street parking, angled in at the Minnetonka retail area, and I put in an on street parking area in front of the future development. My hope with all that street parking on Minnetonka is that it induces land owners to build on their off street parking, plugging in the gaps with buildings.

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Anondson
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Anondson » February 14th, 2016, 10:10 pm

Part 2 of my fantasy vision for the County 25 corridor highwayscape downgrade and Minnetonka Blvd death road 4–3 conversion. This time the west half, with primary focus around the north Belt Line Station Area. The biggest change is probably a proposed traffic light at Raleigh Ave and County 25.
ImageBelt Line Station Area Fantasy Map by Eric Anondson, on Flickr

New on the map are trails. There are bike trails and bike bridges on this part of County 25. I marked in purple where I see changes and new bike trails. I see the existing bike trail on the north side on County 25 given an at grade crossing at the new stop light and then run along the south side service road to the historical park and landmark and making a link to the regional trail.

I noticed the RFP the city council just announced includes a 6 story residential with ground floor retail, 4 story offices, and a 4 story parking ramp to serve as parking for the site and a park and ride. The RFP included a pedestrian bridge to the future regional trail flyover bridge over Belt Line Blvd. Not a skyway. A pedestrian bridge linking the new development to the flyover regional trail. I marked the bike/Ped bridges in orange.

There already exists a bike bridge crossing from Carpenter Park over County 25, I propose extending a new connection from the existing pedestrian bridge to the RFP development. Essentially creating a network of bike/ped bridges. I envision new possibilities for redevelopment in the SW corner of Belt Line and County 25, these could link to the bridges just as the RFP development. This isn't to become a skyway, but stay as an outdoor bike/ped elevated route.

In the NW corner of Belt Line and County 25 its all a question. But I could see the owner building on the surface parking and vacated service road. To clean up the way the service roads come at Ottawa, I see simply giving the vacated service road as surface parking to Yeshiva of Minneapolis, so the surface parking lot they use across Natchez could be developed. By getting all the service roads coming at Ottawa and Belt Line, the pedestrian and bike crossing of County 25 is made better.

The "New Road" from the RFP site going east to Lynn is in the latest proposed Belt Line Station Area map, I overlayed remnants of that map onto this, you can see signs of it sticking out. :) I also included an overlay of the TH 100 project from MNDOT's documents.


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