Minnesota Transportation Funding (General)

[David Greene]

How would the proposed sales tax be governed? It can't go through CTIB, right? So it goes directly to the Met Council? If a 1/4 cent is flexed to roads, presumably that money stays in the county. There ought to be a provision to also flex 1/4 cent to transit within the county. Why do counties get to keep money for roads but not transit?

[acs]

So I guess the rumors were wrong when they suggested the DFL would trade transportation revenue for tax cuts using the unspent money going into next session. It appears Bakk already spent that chip to get the (quite shitty) environmental bill passed during the special session over the objections of his own party.

http://www.minnpost.com/party-politics/ ... al-session

[David Greene]

Time for the caucus to replace Bakk as majority leader.

[LakeCharles]

Man I hope we get a new Majority Leader. Bakk's gotta go.

[acs]

Agree completely. Looks like there are rumblings of that too:
http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy ... al-session

[mattaudio]

The root of all of these problems is that we gave up the right of local governments to tax themselves for improvements back in the 1970s. Now everything must funnel through a dysfunctional legislature that kowtows to exurban/rural special interests. The Minnesota Miracle is hardly turning out to be a miracle.

[mattaudio]

Woodbury is maybe 2 to 3 decades away from complete collapse as they get into the desperation phase of the suburban experiment. Complete. Collapse. Much of the city will end up being abandoned. Let them have at it.

[EOst]

[trigonalmayhem]

The root of all of these problems is that we gave up the right of local governments to tax themselves for improvements back in the 1970s. Now everything must funnel through a dysfunctional legislature that kowtows to exurban/rural special interests. The Minnesota Miracle is hardly turning out to be a miracle.

THIS! A hundred times this.

[MNdible]

The root of all of these problems is that we gave up the right of local governments to tax themselves for improvements back in the 1970s. Now everything must funnel through a dysfunctional legislature that kowtows to exurban/rural special interests. The Minnesota Miracle is hardly turning out to be a miracle.

THIS! A hundred times this.

Right, because having individual counties planning their own transit systems works so well, we should probably have the cities take things over from them.

Please point me to a single transit system in the country that doesn't struggle with all of the same issues that we do. We're not uniquely hosed. Building transit is hard, because it involves cobbling together a bunch of disparate entities and fighting over limited funds.

[trigonalmayhem]

Denver, SLC, Seattle, Portland, etc etc.

Not all their lines are great but they don't have the same bureaucratic cluster fuck we do here with fifteen layers of government sticking their hands in the cookie jar.

[EOst]

Right, because having individual counties planning their own transit systems works so well, we should probably have the cities take things over from them.

Please point me to a single transit system in the country that doesn't struggle with all of the same issues that we do. We're not uniquely hosed. Building transit is hard, because it involves cobbling together a bunch of disparate entities and fighting over limited funds.

-1

If you want expensive urban transit, don't complain on an urbanist forum or hassle planners at the Met Council, lobby Congress. They're the only ones who can really fund and make possible what people here want. This is what we get with the funding sources we have.

[EOst]

Denver, SLC, Seattle, Portland, etc etc.

Not all their lines are great but they don't have the same bureaucratic cluster fuck we do here with fifteen layers of government sticking their hands in the cookie jar.

All of those cities have transit boondoggles far boondogglier than ours, for the exact same regional equity reasons.

[mattaudio]

This is what we get with the funding sources we have.

Let's change the funding sources we have. #obviously

Does it not strike you as backwards that our city's tax receipts get siphoned off to a paternalistic legislature that redirects those tax receipts to subsidize the exurbs and rural areas of the state?

[EOst]

Let's change the funding sources we have. #obviously

Does it not strike you as backwards that our city's tax receipts get siphoned off to a paternalistic legislature that redirects those tax receipts to subsidize the exurbs and rural areas of the state?

You're preaching to the choir. But as the last couple years at the Legislature have demonstrated, that's going to be a hard lift indeed.

[MNdible]

I'm not sure exactly when crapping on the Minnesota Miracle got cool with all of the StrongTownKidz, but were it not for that legislation and some of the other accompanying elements, Minneapolis would have taken a much harder hit in the 70's and 80's. It's easy now, when Minneapolis is riding relatively high, to say that it should go on its own. But the whole idea was a rather quaint one, that the whole state does better when those areas in need get a hand from those doing well.

Clearly, Minneapolis would be better off if kids growing up in poorer rural areas went to truly horrible schools.

[acs]

The core cities do subsidize the infrastructure of the suburbs, but by the same token the suburbs subsidize the social services of the city. Which one is larger? I don't know, but if lady Minneapolis were really the saintly giver being taken advantage of by parasitic suburbs then her city budget wouldn't be reliant on $79m a year in LGA.

[mattaudio]

"If I garnish your entire very generous income, but give you back a little spending cash, why are you so reliant on that spending cash to survive? You must be poor!"

[acs]

If you really think that's how things are working, then you really need to get your head out of liberal lala land. Determining who the takers and who the makers are is far more complicated than that but I suspect you may not want to go down that path for fear of what you might find.

[masstrlk67]

The core cities do subsidize the infrastructure of the suburbs, but by the same token the suburbs subsidize the social services of the city. Which one is larger? I don't know, but if lady Minneapolis were really the saintly giver being taken advantage of by parasitic suburbs then her city budget wouldn't be reliant on $79m a year in LGA.

Hmmm, do those suburbs possibly have anything to do with Minneapolis having such a relatively large social services budget?