Minnesota Transportation Funding (General)

[mattaudio]

To be read, "Bob, again?"

[fehler]

Sorry, not clicking a blind link to an unknown website from someone new on the forum. Summary? Or Spam?

[twincitizen]

It's perennial candidate and SWLRT critic Bob "Again" Carney. The website is safe, though obviously consider the source is a nutjob who wears large signs on his body to public meetings.

[intercomnut]

House proposes allowing the 5 counties within CTIB to raise a .25 cent sales tax. These funds could go to any transportation priority. The Met Council could also impose a .25 cent sales tax dedicated only to buses, including BRT. The CTIB would be reqiured to fund 100% of capital and operating costs for light rail lines build after July 1. The Senate is proposing something very similar.

For roads specifically, they propose directing $300 million in general fund dollars annually to roads, along with other taxes that will add up to $600 million per year.

They also have some specific language targeting SWLRT and adding some stringent criteria for it to receive any additional state funding.

More detail on the county-imposed sales tax. The majority of cities in each county would have to ratify the tax. In Hennepin, it would also be required that Minneapolis ratify it.

[Tiller]

I have mixed feelings on this. The .25% anything-sales-tax and the current .25% sales tax could probably cover our light rail system, while the .25% bus sales tax could be used for a lot of bus lines.

I really don't like the $300M/year out of the general fund. I'm apprehensive about the SWLRT restrictions. Requiring a simple majority of cities to buy-in to the anything-sales-tax sounds like it could be a pain in the ass, compared to weighting the votes by population.

If the requirement that the CTIB funds 100% of light rail line operating and capital costs means we can't seek federal funds for projects (as opposed to the CTIB funding 100% of the local share), then that can't stay in the final bill. Unless SWLRT will be finished in a hurry, and/or is excluded from this in the aforementioned SWLRT restrictions, then it and all following LRT lines would probably be dead. It would effectively double their costs.

[VAStationDude]

https://twitter.com/AnneMFinn/status/73 ... 13441?s=09

This shows a ctib vote would authorize a quarter cent ctib tax.

The sales tax transfer from the general fund to transportation does stink.

[intercomnut]

If the requirement that the CTIB funds 100% of light rail line operating and capital costs means we can't seek federal funds for projects (as opposed to the CTIB funding 100% of the local share), then that can't stay in the final bill. Unless SWLRT will be finished in a hurry, and/or is excluded from this in the aforementioned SWLRT restrictions, then it and all following LRT lines would probably be dead. It would effectively double their costs.

I don't think that's what they meant. It seems like their priority is not having the state pay for any more light rail. Doesn't matter if the feds help out.

https://twitter.com/AnneMFinn/status/73 ... 13441?s=09

This shows a ctib vote would authorize a quarter cent ctib tax.

Where does it say that?

[VAStationDude]

The first sentence of the ctib paragraph states an action of the board would authorize the tax.

[intercomnut]

The first sentence of the ctib paragraph states an action of the board would authorize the tax.

I need to work on my reading comprehension. Thanks!

[VAStationDude]

No worries. The bit about ctib tax being open to roads and bridges is concerning.

[intercomnut]

No worries. The bit about ctib tax being open to roads and bridges is concerning.

Agreed. Though it could also be a good thing. The House proposal (which I should specify is not a formal proposal yet) contains no funding for ped and bike infrastructure. So, a slice of the .25 cent tax could be used to fund bike and ped projects if the county so desires. That could be a game changer, given how cheap those projects are.

[VAStationDude]

I really hope the dfl doesn't mess up an opportunity for dedicated stable transit funding. This offer from the gop house is close to being a great win for transit riders, Minneapolis and Saint Paul.

[intercomnut]

I really hope the dfl doesn't mess up an opportunity for dedicated stable transit funding. This offer from the gop house is close to being a great win for transit riders, Minneapolis and Saint Paul.

Well, the senate decided to adjourn until 1pm, giving them 11 hours to pass all the rest of the bills for the session. That scares me.

[David Greene]

It's terrible, not a win. None of the sales tax can go to LRT and the state cuts its share. This is a decrease in LRT funding. The general transportation sales tax won't be going to LRT or probably any transit if it requires a majority of cities to approve it.

It's stable finding for buses, which is good but it's also a ton of road funding (plus all the additional state finding for roads) and a cut to LRT.

CTIB does not have enough bonding capacity under the existing sales tax to do much more rail for quite some time. This threatens Bottineau, Riverview, Rush, Midtown and any other trail lines we react to do.

No deal. Go to the election and get DFL majorities.

EDIT: Even if cities don't need to approve, there is no way the majority of that tax goes to transit. This is a giveaway to roads with a tiny sliver for transit. We're not going to get another transportation bill for a decade if this passes. It takes care of roads but not transit.

[intercomnut]

It's terrible, not a win. None of the sales tax can go to LRT and the state cuts its share. This is a decrease in LRT funding. The general transportation sales tax won't be going to LRT or probably any transit if it requires a majority of cities to approve it.

It's stable finding for buses, which is good but it's also a ton of road funding (plus all the additional state finding for roads) and a cut to LRT.

CTIB does not have enough bonding capacity under the existing sales tax to do much more rail for quite some time. This threatens Bottineau, Riverview, Rush, Midtown and any other trail lines we react to do.

No deal. Go to the election and get DFL majorities.

EDIT: Even if cities don't need to approve, there is no way the majority of that tax goes to transit. This is a giveaway to roads with a tiny sliver for transit. We're not going to get another transportation bill for a decade if this passes. It takes care of roads but not transit.

The counties can put their .25% sales tax toward LRT if they'd like. It seems to me that Hennepin at least would be eager to do this.

[BigIdeasGuy]

I'm confused what new money could be used to expand LRT? Because the way I'm reading answer in basically zero. Then on top of that CBIT is now responsible for 100% of the operating cost of LRT with the same amount of money going forward.

[intercomnut]

I'm confused what new money could be used to expand LRT? Because the way I'm reading answer in basically zero. Then on top of that CBIT is now responsible for 100% of the operating cost of LRT with the same amount of money going forward.

The CTIB counties can levy a quarter cent sales tax on top of the existing quarter cent sales tax. This can be put toward any transportation priority, including giving it to the CTIB for LRT.

[VAStationDude]

I read the additional quarter cent ctib tax as replacing the new state lrt contribution. the state funding of existing light rail would be made up by the quarter cent met council tax. I could be wrong but it doesn't look like a cut to lrt. Cities wouldn't have control over the ctib tax. It would be up to the counties through ctib. One thing that's not clear is wether the new quarter cent ctib tax would have to apply to all ctib counties. I would prefer a Dakota, Hennepin and Ramsey ctib to including Anoka and Washington.

Ctib currently funds 1/2 of lrt operating subsidy with the state picking up the other half. New lrt operations would be funded entirely by ctib. Bus and para transit subsidies would come from dedicated state mvst and regional sales tax.

[David Greene]

The counties can put their .25% sales tax toward LRT if they'd like. It seems to me that Hennepin at least would be eager to do this.

Even if this is true, which other counties would? It has to pass the board.

There's a lot of spending on roads the counties want to do. Certainly less than half the additional money will go to any kind of transit, so a sliver at best to LRT.

[David Greene]

How does the Met Council for example fund aBRT capital costs? The new CTIB tax, right?

At best this"deal" maintains current transit funding levels and that assumes a significant chunk of the new CTIB tax actually goes to transit.

How is this compelling for transit supporters?


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