Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
intercomnut
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby intercomnut » April 12th, 2016, 11:01 am

mattaudio wrote:More reason for my Greenway - Hiawatha - Riverview - SPUD LRT service sub-alignment?
Also more reason for interlining Mpls Crosstown buses into DT St. Paul (23, 46, 515?)
It seems like it would be a good idea to combine the 23 and the 74. Both are slated to be added to the Hi-Frequency network (although the 23 is much lower on the priority list) at similar frequencies.

Although, as with a lot of fantasy routes, that would be pretty long (18 miles). It would also lose the 74's connection to the Blue Line at 46th St station, but would still have one at 38th St. It would just take longer. They'd also need to find a way to serve the Veteran's Home without degrading service on the rest of the route.

mattaudio
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby mattaudio » April 12th, 2016, 11:53 am

Walk/Bike/Transit bridge at 38th Street/St. Clair, connecting the 70 and the 23? We could dream, right? Though as you point out the 74 and 23 are more compatible for frequency than the 70 and 23. Maybe the 46 and 70 would be a better match. In order to make these lines reasonable, we'd have to separate the 70 and 74 into routes west and east of DT St. Paul. Though I'd bet that the benefit of plenty more South Mpls to DT St. Paul commuters (with a single seat ride and no transfer penalty) would far outweigh the loss to ridership that rides on these routes from one side of DT St. Paul to the other.

intercomnut
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby intercomnut » April 12th, 2016, 1:08 pm

I admit, combining the 70 and the 23 with a transit bridge would be really nice. It'd be straight and direct, very much in line with MT's goals for bus routes. And I do wonder if the ridership on the 70 would increase if it offered that connection to S. Minneapolis. Though given the ridership on the 23 isn't amazing, it probably wouldn't make too much of a difference.

It would be interesting to see a trip inventory study and see how many people make trips from S. Minneapolis to DT St. Paul vs those traveling through DT Saint Paul. Does anyone know if results from the last survey are available anywhere?

David Greene
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby David Greene » April 12th, 2016, 1:21 pm

RailBaronYarr wrote:I can say that after nearly 2 years of commuting from my house at 35th and Fremont S, which is actually served by the high frequency 6 along with the 4 within a reasonable walking distance, that heading into downtown (shorter distance than many who live south of me!) to transfer to the 94 is a real pain in the ass. It's why I bike into downtown whenever possible, saving time there and getting a more favorable transfer point (which is especially important on the way home when the 94 takes forever to get to the west side of downtown). And it doesn't surprise me that my many coworkers living in Longfellow or Nokomis drive.
Great analysis. I'm curious: how did you arrive at the live/work numbers? How do we know how many riders are going to/from home from/to work?

You speak the truth about the 6 and the 94. The Green Line made that trip much easier for me, as I can take the 114 to the Green Line and bypass downtown. It's a huge timesaver.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 12th, 2016, 2:34 pm

I used Census OnTheMap tool, so my numbers weren't even those that commute by transit from the home locations to work locations. intercomnut references rider surveys that estimate origin/destination of riders, but I haven't seen reports unless they were part of larger transit study (ie the Midtown study that talked about % of trips starting/ending inside/outside the corridor). My larger point was that after 12 years, this high-quality transit connection from S Mpls to MOA/MSP hasn't really impacted live/work patterns, even if the transit mode share of that relatively small number may have improved.

I'm still skeptical the 114-GL saves much time over the 6/4-94 bus (if during peak hours when the 94 comes frequently). If I'm reading this right, a 7:18 am 114 would pick me up at 36th/Hennepin and I'd end at the 10th St station in SP by 8:13 transferring at either U GL station. That's 55 minutes, which is more than what it would take to do a 6-94 trip for me (which takes 55-60 minutes in the AM counted walking out the front door to my desk in the Golden Rule Building: 6:53 AM 6 to the 7:15 94 at Hennepin for reference). As David Markle will tell you, the Green Line just isn't great for speedy trips between downtowns (unless it's snowing, then definitely take the GL).

jebr
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby jebr » April 12th, 2016, 2:42 pm

The 114 - GL would be useful as well if someone didn't want to pay the express bus upcharge each day (or pay for the $3 pass vs. a lower-value pass.) If it saved $1.50/day and gave the benefit of rail for part of the route, I could see people opting for the 114 - GL option.

David Greene
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby David Greene » April 12th, 2016, 2:53 pm

Ah, I should have clarified. I work on the train so the 6/114 time is my "real" commute time. I would actually take the train from downtown because it's way easier to work on a smooth train than a bumpy bus.

seanrichardryan
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby seanrichardryan » April 13th, 2016, 8:45 am

'The horrors of riding Metro Transit with my preschooler'

http://www.startribune.com/the-horrors- ... 375439251/

takeway: Ban children?
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 13th, 2016, 9:52 am

Coulda used a better headline IMO. Was a mostly positive piece.

But yeah. Ban kids.

seanrichardryan
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby seanrichardryan » April 13th, 2016, 10:44 am

Story updated, now says :
'The indignities of riding Metro Transit with my preschooler
It's been 12 months since my daughter and I switched to mass transit.
That means 12 months of embarrassment, hassles and important life lessons — for both of us. '
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

Tcmetro
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby Tcmetro » April 13th, 2016, 11:44 am

I don't think it's a big deal. There are a lot of people who don't have the means to drive that have to bring their kids with them on the bus.

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mister.shoes
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby mister.shoes » April 13th, 2016, 12:05 pm

I read it and found it mostly positive as well. The best I can tell, both "horrors" and "indignities" are missing ironic scare quotes in the headline. Like, "OMG it was so awful you guys...no, not really."
The problem with being an introvert online is that no one knows you're just hanging out and listening.

amiller92
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby amiller92 » April 13th, 2016, 12:08 pm

Tcmetro wrote:I don't think it's a big deal. There are a lot of people who don't have the means to drive that have to bring their kids with them on the bus.
Yeah, I didn't really get it, as the buses I use have kids on them all the time and I'd never noticed any judgment. But then I'm not on a bus heading to/from Uptown during rush hour, so maybe it's a different crowd? That and the 14 is rarely if ever standing-room crowded.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 13th, 2016, 12:26 pm

I can say that a toddler on the 6 or 17 during rush hours isn't easy. Before ours could walk or want his own seat, a baby carrier was pretty good. I'll also point out that, while the article did a good job of highlighting the tensions of sharing public spaces, it also frames taking your kid on the bus as a nice little choice that relatively well-off white people (including myself/wife!!!) have just rediscovered and learned to deal with, rather than a story about it having been the only choice for many families for decades. (the same could be said about many urban puff-pieces talking about how "families" are re-discovering cities/smaller spaces/etc as if minority families haven't been doing it forever).

MinnMonkey
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby MinnMonkey » April 13th, 2016, 2:29 pm

seanrichardryan wrote:'The horrors of riding Metro Transit with my preschooler'

http://www.startribune.com/the-horrors- ... 375439251/

takeway: Ban children?
I posted this in another form, but found this comment to be the best :roll:
Very glad to learn that we are able to fully subsidize someone who obviously needs mass transit because they find the dashboard lights on a car too confusing. Yes, these are your tax dollars at work, ladies and gentlemen.

LakeCharles
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby LakeCharles » June 10th, 2016, 7:53 am

I was walking down Nicollet last night and noticed something odd with the shelter/bench placement.

Between 27th and 46th there is only one bus shelter for southbound Nicollet riders (at 38th). There are also only 3 benches to sit at while waiting. Meanwhile northbound Nicollet has 7 bus shelters in that same span, along with 6 benches.

So that is only one place to check a schedule for southbound Nicollet, vs 7 for northbound, and only 4 places to sit vs 13 for northbound. Does anyone know why that would be?

Silophant
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby Silophant » June 10th, 2016, 8:25 am

I'm guessing a lot more people are taking it northbound than southbound at that segment, and southbound passengers are mostly deboarding and don't need a place to sit or wait.

It's still no excuse for not having schedules posted at every stop, though.

mattaudio
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby mattaudio » June 10th, 2016, 8:25 am

That's quite common across the system, based on the assumption of the primary travelshed being busing into the CBD and busing out home. The thought is that you arrive at a stop in the morning and have to wait a few minutes for a bus, but when you get off the bus in the afternoon you walk straight home. I assume this is still the dominant pattern, but maybe not to the degree to which this mindset has entrenched in our transit network. I bet it goes back to streetcar days.

You do bring up a good point: We need better signage, including timetables, at bus stops which do not have shelters.

Or, maybe TCUP can produce MetroTransit-branded stickers that say "Please Check Schedules" to put up at bus stops. That would be helpful.

LakeCharles
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby LakeCharles » June 10th, 2016, 9:07 am

It was just very frustrating. I was coming home late, and knew that the bus only comes every 20/30 minutes late night but I didn't know when, so I thought I would just walk south until I found a schedule and then see whether I should keep walking or wait. But there never was one! I just barely missed the one bus that passed me at 38th St after running a block to catch it. And then of course there was a schedule that told me another would be by in 21 minutes.

Moral of the story: Being a bus rider w/o a smartphone sucks.

mattaudio
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Re: Improving Metro Transit's urban bus service

Postby mattaudio » June 10th, 2016, 9:15 am

I've never used it, but supposedly you can get NexTrip data by phone by calling 612-341-4287.


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