Midtown Greenway

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
Tcmetro
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby Tcmetro » September 27th, 2017, 9:03 pm

Buying up two miles of industry (and presumably firing all the workers) is pretty much the most illogical way to get a bike path extended.

Silophant
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby Silophant » September 27th, 2017, 9:44 pm

Probably. One wrinkle: Unless and until SWLRT gets built, one of those (extremely low-volume, but important) customers is Metro Transit.

DanB
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby DanB » September 27th, 2017, 10:39 pm

The Green line maintenance facility sits fairly close to the the BNSF line in fact the property has a rail line remnant on the eastern portion of it so i would not think a connection there would be hard.

minneboom
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby minneboom » November 24th, 2017, 10:38 pm

Article on the recent work of the Extend the Midtown Greenway Partnership.

http://www.mndaily.com/article/2017/11/ ... =hootsuite

SurlyLHT
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby SurlyLHT » April 27th, 2018, 11:02 am

Here's a StarTribune article about extending the Greenway. From reading the article, I don't really see the benefit of the new study given one was conducted in 2006. Secondly, if anything they should expect the condition of the bridge to be worse and more expensive to repair than less. A new bridge or utilizing the piers of the existing one is probably the best bet. A new bridge was once quoted at $14 million. Honestly, given the cost of a bridge for the Vikings was roughly $10 million I think the cost would be worth it given the thousands who would use the connection.

http://www.startribune.com/a-bridge-too ... 481071701/

mattaudio
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby mattaudio » April 27th, 2018, 11:20 am

I'm guessing $14 million would be a bike/ped bridge alone, not a bridge that could also support the single track of freight rail for now or some sort of transit use in the future.

SurlyLHT
Target Field
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby SurlyLHT » April 27th, 2018, 11:39 am

You're probably correct and a new bridge is probably closer to $20 million or beyond

alexschief
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby alexschief » April 27th, 2018, 11:54 am

A new study may or may not change our understanding of the alternatives available, but it ought to provide new cost estimates (which will come way above $14 million), a fresh perspective on the issue, and most of all, will hopefully provide renewed political momentum for this vital crossing. It is so obvious how important and monumental a bicycle link (and subsequent expansion of the greenway down the Ayd Mill Corridor) would be, and with repaving coming soon on AMR, it could also present a serious alternative to doubling down on that wildly inappropriate pseudo-highway.

After all, the main problems with extending the greenway are not financial, but political. The Mississippi NRRA's opposition to additional bridges over the gorge is understandable, but in our era of climate change, I hope they could be persuaded to allow a bicycle (and pedestrian) bridge that will open up alternatives to trips by car potentially for tens of thousands of people. An engineering study is the first step to building momentum for the public to get excited, and then the council members and mayors, the state representatives, and ultimately the cities' US representation, who might be needed to lean on Interior or pass something that empowers Interior to approve this bridge.

MNdible
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby MNdible » April 27th, 2018, 12:02 pm

I'd say the first financial step is buying out those last remaining customers being served by the rail line. Once you've done that, your world of possibilities opens up considerably.

MNdible
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby MNdible » April 27th, 2018, 12:05 pm

Sort of related: Does anybody know if the SWLRT project includes a delivery track for new LRT cars into the system? To replace the one that would be lost if this rail link went away?

SurlyLHT
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby SurlyLHT » April 27th, 2018, 12:24 pm

It seems to me that building sections of the Greenway in St. Paul would be a good first step. Right now it would be a bridge to nowhere for bikes. Completing the Ayd Mill section would be huge. Go from Downtown St. Paul to the river. I'm also wondering what the RR will do if their bridge deteriorates to the point it can no longer carry trains?

EOst
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby EOst » April 27th, 2018, 1:07 pm

1) The first study wasn't a very meaningful one, as the engineers weren't allowed any close-up inspections of the bridge, so most or all of its conclusions were inference based on general design and age. This second study would get around the railroad's reluctance to allow real study using drone photography and laser measurements.

2) From how it was explained to me by the engineer, it's possible that the bridge actually won't need extensive repair, especially if Hennepin County buys out the remaining shippers. They pointed out (IIRC) that the #9 Bridge has substantially the same design but only needed relatively minor work.

3) As soon as you reach the other side of the bridge, there's quite a bit of space to build a trail on the south side of the railroad tracks all the way to Cleveland and perhaps even to Prior. Even without Ayd Mill, that means connections to Otis Ave, the new protected bikeway on Pelham Blvd, the bike lanes on Cleveland, and (if it reaches Prior) the protected bikeway being installed this year on the south side of St. Anthony Ave to Aldine (& via Aldine bike blvd, to Charles Ave). Even that short stretch could mean a whole lot, but it doesn't make as much sense for Saint Paul or Ramsey County without the bridge.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby SurlyLHT » April 27th, 2018, 1:28 pm

Minneapolis built the Greenway as we know it without a bridge. If it terminated at the river it would still be a good connection to the U of M and the river trails. Summit is St. Paul's only well used cycling connection to that portion of the river. And additional connection would be worthwhile.

EOst
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby EOst » April 27th, 2018, 1:36 pm

I'm not saying that a Greenway in Saint Paul wouldn't be useful without a bridge. I'm saying it would be harder to get funded based on the scoring criteria, and it would be a harder sell to elected officials.

Tom H.
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby Tom H. » April 27th, 2018, 2:10 pm

MNdible wrote:
April 27th, 2018, 12:05 pm
Sort of related: Does anybody know if the SWLRT project includes a delivery track for new LRT cars into the system? To replace the one that would be lost if this rail link went away?
The 100% engineering plans show that the SWLRT O&M facility is directly adjacent to the CP Bass Lake spur, but I don't see an actual siding or rail connection in the plans. That has to have been a driving factor in the facility placement, though, so I imagine that's in the works.

https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation ... e2017.aspx


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