Midtown Greenway

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
DanPatchToget
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby DanPatchToget » September 21st, 2017, 11:27 am

Well I've been told by Minnesota Commercial (the railroad that operates over that bridge) employees it can handle two trains stacked on top of each other. Pretty sure if collapse was imminent there wouldn't be a train crossing over it. I think we learned from the 35W Bridge collapse.

SurlyLHT
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby SurlyLHT » September 21st, 2017, 11:36 am

I doubt they have more than 5 years before they have to either stop train traffic or work on the bridge. It'll be nice if St Paul started construction on the segments they're able to build presently.

EOst
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby EOst » September 21st, 2017, 2:23 pm

DanPatchToget wrote:
September 21st, 2017, 11:27 am
Well I've been told by Minnesota Commercial (the railroad that operates over that bridge) employees it can handle two trains stacked on top of each other. Pretty sure if collapse was imminent there wouldn't be a train crossing over it. I think we learned from the 35W Bridge collapse.
Maybe so. They've never allowed (to the best of my knowledge) a thorough independent evaluation.
SurlyLHT wrote:I doubt they have more than 5 years before they have to either stop train traffic or work on the bridge. It'll be nice if St Paul started construction on the segments they're able to build presently.
There's definitely some interest in that, but it would be very hard to justify without the bridge connection. East of Cleveland the city probably can't build anything without abandoning its dream of connecting Ayd Mill and 94.

talindsay
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby talindsay » September 21st, 2017, 8:51 pm

The speed is dictated by the tracks, not the bridge. The tracks are 65 foot bolted rail, if memory serves.

minneboom
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby minneboom » September 21st, 2017, 9:44 pm


SurlyLHT
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby SurlyLHT » September 22nd, 2017, 6:46 am

Looks like it actually may fall down...do we really want this bridge? Sounds like we'll have to strip it down to the piers and rebuild.

"A 2006 study commissioned by the county indicated that the bridge, due to its age, construction, and maintenance, is at risk of collapse. A recommendation was made to build a new bike/pedestrian bridge using the bridge piers, which had $12 million costs at that time. Also suggested was construction of a new bridge parallel to the existing one."

alexschief
City Center
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby alexschief » September 22nd, 2017, 11:41 am

There's probably no project in MSP that I'm more interested in going forward than this one. Protected bike lanes are great, but what has long set Minneapolis apart from other bicycle cities is its network of trails; essentially bicycle highways. A route running from Uptown to downtown Saint Paul would be a peerless piece of bicycle infrastructure in North America, if not the world. I hope that the next Mayors of Saint Paul and Minneapolis make this a priority, and I'm happy to contribute to any public fundraising efforts to make this happen.

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Tiller
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby Tiller » September 22nd, 2017, 11:44 am

If we can afford a $10M bridge for the Vikings, this should be a no-brainer it's such a good investment.

EOst
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby EOst » September 22nd, 2017, 12:08 pm

From what I've been told, that 2006 study didn't get to study the bridge up-close, only from the ground below and from the Lake St Bridge. I believe Minnesota Commercial's position was that Hennepin County had to buy it (for basically nothing) and assume responsibility for it before they could do more thorough analysis.

Didier
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby Didier » September 22nd, 2017, 1:03 pm

That $12 million estimate seems really low for such a huge bridge, doesn't it?

HiawathaGuy
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby HiawathaGuy » September 22nd, 2017, 2:47 pm

Didier wrote:
September 22nd, 2017, 1:03 pm
That $12 million estimate seems really low for such a huge bridge, doesn't it?
Which would still only be $14.6 million in 2017 dollars *.

* http://www.in2013dollars.com/2006-dolla ... t=12000000

Didier
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby Didier » September 22nd, 2017, 3:12 pm

Forgive me if I missed this somewhere, but what route would the Greenway take to downtown St. Paul? Is the idea that it'd follow the train ROW the whole way? Or is there some opportunity to make it more direct?

Vagueperson
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby Vagueperson » September 22nd, 2017, 8:12 pm

Is it supposed to follow the 35E trail? Not so nice into downtown St. Paul.

minneboom
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby minneboom » September 23rd, 2017, 4:14 pm

You can read more about the Extend the Greenway Partnership that the Midtown Greenway is forming at the link below. If people or organizations are interested contact Soren Jensen at soren@midtowngreenway.org.

http://midtowngreenway.org/projects-and ... rovements/

SurlyLHT
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby SurlyLHT » September 27th, 2017, 7:29 am

I noticed that they're replacing the rail crossing at 26th if my memory serves me correctly. I presume they wouldn't do this if they thought they were going to stop using tracks soon or believed that the bridge would soon be impassable.

DanB
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby DanB » September 27th, 2017, 9:13 am

Given the unknowns about the condition of the bridge and the long term usage of it for rail traffic it seems to me that building a new parallel bridge coupled with a similar layout to what exists on the west side of the river (one rail track a service road and then the bike path) going at least to Cleveland is the best chance of getting this to move forward. If the last mills along Hiawatha would close and the line were vacated that would be awesome but that might be a long wait.

EOst
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby EOst » September 27th, 2017, 2:36 pm

My understanding is that a parallel bridge is basically a non-starter. Friends of the Mississippi would strongly oppose any new river crossings, and they'd have a strong ally at the NPS.

SurlyLHT
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby SurlyLHT » September 27th, 2017, 2:53 pm

You could maybe attach a bridge to the existing one as was proposed with the RiverFirst plans. I don't see how this couldn't be done without putting money into stabilizing the existing bridge first.

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby min-chi-cbus » September 27th, 2017, 7:51 pm

EOst wrote:
September 27th, 2017, 2:36 pm
My understanding is that a parallel bridge is basically a non-starter. Friends of the Mississippi would strongly oppose any new river crossings, and they'd have a strong ally at the NPS.
Aren't those the same friends who usually ride bikes?

mattaudio
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Re: Midtown Greenway

Postby mattaudio » September 27th, 2017, 8:41 pm

DanB wrote:
September 27th, 2017, 9:13 am
and the long term usage of it for rail traffic
Isn't this why advocates have pivoted to buying the remaining handful of industries who use the rail on the Minneapolis side of the bridge? No rail customers = no trains = good chance for Greenway Extension.


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