Traffic Enforcement

[trigonalmayhem]

/\ this exactly. I'm honestly a lot more likely to be killed by a driver breaking the law than by being shot or stabbed as things currently stand. Their job is to keep order and protect us, and keeping automobile drivers in check is one very necessary part of that. But I know they've got a drug war to wage and minorities to disproportionately target, so I get that my life is less important than feeding the prison industrial complex with warm bodies.

[HiawathaGuy]

/\ this exactly. I'm honestly a lot more likely to be killed by a driver breaking the law than by being shot or stabbed as things currently stand. Their job is to keep order and protect us, and keeping automobile drivers in check is one very necessary part of that. But I know they've got a drug war to wage and minorities to disproportionately target, so I get that my life is less important than feeding the prison industrial complex with warm bodies.

By all means, I encourage you to sit down with Mayor Hodges and express your point of view. I'm sure she'd be thrilled to hear your point of view.
Sometimes I think you live in an alternate universe - where money (for everything you want) seems to flow endlessly. If only we were all so lucky.

[kirby96]

Actually, are you sure that's true? The site below says in 2010-2012 there were 116 traffic deaths (including pedestrians, single car accidents, etc.) in all of Hennepin County. Although it's harder to tease those numbers out of the dps stats.

https://streets.mn/2014/05/20/still-too- ... in-cities/
https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/ots/report ... heets.aspx

Minneapolis alone, on the other hand, had a total of 118 murders in those 3 years.

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/police/sta ... S1P-090581

[acs]

Not to mention the fact that we're up to nearly 50 murders in Minneapolis in just this year. According to the department of public safety there were 361 people killed on all Minnesota roads throughout 2014. Just 17 of them were pedestrians and 5 were bicyclists. So I think we can cut back on the Massacre rhetoric just a bit, unless we're talking about blacks killing each other.

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/ots/report ... fault.aspx

[lordmoke]

I think we can cut back on the Massacre rhetoric just a bit, unless we're talking about blacks killing each other.

[Anondson]

Is there a ratio of killed people on roads that would suddenly deserve that label, in your opinion?

In any case I think you miss the intent of the deliberately hyperbolic "Massacre" label.

[Sacrelicio]

/\ this exactly. I'm honestly a lot more likely to be killed by a driver breaking the law than by being shot or stabbed as things currently stand. Their job is to keep order and protect us, and keeping automobile drivers in check is one very necessary part of that. But I know they've got a drug war to wage and minorities to disproportionately target, so I get that my life is less important than feeding the prison industrial complex with warm bodies.

By all means, I encourage you to sit down with Mayor Hodges and express your point of view. I'm sure she'd be thrilled to hear your point of view.
Sometimes I think you live in an alternate universe - where money (for everything you want) seems to flow endlessly. If only we were all so lucky.

What is the point of this ridiculous comment?

[Tyler]

Traffic enforcement is a money loser? Really?

[Sacrelicio]

Not to mention the fact that we're up to nearly 50 murders in Minneapolis in just this year. According to the department of public safety there were 361 people killed on all Minnesota roads throughout 2014. Just 17 of them were pedestrians and 5 were bicyclists. So I think we can cut back on the Massacre rhetoric just a bit, unless we're talking about blacks killing each other.

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/ots/report ... fault.aspx

....so we just need more deaths before we do anything? What about a little preventative medicine?

[RailBaronYarr]

Certainly I think the crime perception can be overblown, especially since broad city-wide or even neighborhood statistics mask the personal nature of many incidents (domestic disputes turned violent, people who seek specific people out for crimes in public, etc). And we shouldn't take away from the real risk our street design and driver behavior puts on us. But it's worth pointing out that crime (homicides or injury-crimes), even in the general SW quadrant of the city (which tracks slightly below city-wide crime averages), is a bigger risk per-capita than walking or biking around. This probably jumps even higher if you're a female. So, I dunno.

[trigonalmayhem]

Most homicides are personal as mentioned above. Most (all?) traffic fatalities are by strangers. So barring me pissing one of you off enough to kill me, I am far more likely to die by car. Just me personally. I'm not saying stop policing violent crime, but they do put a lot of resources into some garbage broken windows approach that seems to be pretty focused on certain areas that are heavily poor and minority. Maybe if they hounded some rush hour drivers in and around downtown the same way it might be better.

[kirby96]

Most traffic fatalities are single car or rural.

And to the point two posts above, men are far more likely to be the victims of crime, as are of course lower income people and minorities.

There are of course huge conditions on those stats that are difficult to adjust for as the above poster points out. If you are a white dude that stays away from drugs your odds of getting t-boned on a bike are certainly much higher than getting murdered. But if your a black dude who doesn't bike, doubtful.

I'm not arguing we shouldn't have better enforcement of traffic laws and better urban design. But the whole policing thing is one I struggle with. I think you could make a pretty coherent argument that steering limited policing resources away from poor urban neighborhoods to better protect white dudes on bikes could itself be considered racially biased. This is based, of course, on the tenuous assumption that the policing done actually serves to 'protect': the methods employed in those neighborhoods, are another matter.

[Sacrelicio]

Most traffic fatalities are single car or rural.

And to the point two posts above, men are far more likely to be the victims of crime, as are of course lower income people and minorities.

There are of course huge conditions on those stats that are difficult to adjust for as the above poster points out. If you are a white dude that stays away from drugs your odds of getting t-boned on a bike are certainly much higher than getting murdered. But if your a black dude who doesn't bike, doubtful.

I'm not arguing we shouldn't have better enforcement of traffic laws and better urban design. But the whole policing thing is one I struggle with. I think you could make a pretty coherent argument that steering limited policing resources away from poor urban neighborhoods to better protect white dudes on bikes could itself be considered racially biased. This is based, of course, on the tenuous assumption that the policing done actually serves to 'protect': the methods employed in those neighborhoods, are another matter.

We're not just talking about white dudes on bikes, we're talking about everyone who walks, drives, or bikes in this city. It's dangerous for everyone. Hire more cops then. I'll gladly pay the taxes for that.

[xandrex]

Maybe if they hounded some rush hour drivers in and around downtown the same way it might be better.

Of all the times that I’ve seen egregious speeding (of the sort that would realistically end up with the person being pulled over), it has never been during rush hour near downtown.

Also: I’m curious if this means that MPD doesn’t do anything related to driving? I’ve been pulled over in Minneapolis before by what appeared to be pretty standard cops (nothing noting “traffic enforcement”) because one of my brake lights was out (in broad daylight, no less). Is it not normal for them to do something like that?

[Sacrelicio]

Maybe if they hounded some rush hour drivers in and around downtown the same way it might be better.

Of all the times that I’ve seen egregious speeding (of the sort that would realistically end up with the person being pulled over), it has never been during rush hour near downtown.

Also: I’m curious if this means that MPD doesn’t do anything related to driving? I’ve been pulled over in Minneapolis before by what appeared to be pretty standard cops (nothing noting “traffic enforcement”) because one of my brake lights was out (in broad daylight, no less). Is it not normal for them to do something like that?

What I see a lot of downtown are drivers that run reds and don't yield to pedestrians or even see them half the time. I see people almost get hit in the north loop all the time.

[grant1simons2]

As I was crossing over a new marked crosswalk in North loop a month ago, the cars began to slow to a stop for me, but then some maniac swerve around them driving in the bike lane and nearly missing me by a foot or two. I've seen it happen before on 4th St SE and on University. That's the kind of stuff I want to see stopped.

[EOst]

As I was crossing over a new marked crosswalk in North loop a month ago, the cars began to slow to a stop for me, but then some maniac swerve around them driving in the bike lane and nearly missing me by a foot or two. I've seen it happen before on 4th St SE and on University. That's the kind of stuff I want to see stopped.

100%

I wrote about something similar happening a couple months ago. It's happened a couple times since. Absolutely terrifying every time.

[MNdible]

And I'd wager that if a cop actually saw that happening, they'd pull over the person that did it. The trick is, short of stationing a cop full time patrolling that stretch of Washington Avenue, how do you catch people doing it?

[Sacrelicio]

And I'd wager that if a cop actually saw that happening, they'd pull over the person that did it. The trick is, short of stationing a cop full time patrolling that stretch of Washington Avenue, how do you catch people doing it?

Short of that? Maybe more traffic patrolling in general? They don't have to sit and wait just on Washington Avenue, but I don't see a lot of cops in the area at all. A few squads downtown dedicated to traffic patrol would make a big difference, and maybe one who just patrols North Loop.

I don't see much patrol at all, the only times I see cops is when they seem to be speeding to get someplace else.

[EOst]

And I'd wager that if a cop actually saw that happening, they'd pull over the person that did it. The trick is, short of stationing a cop full time patrolling that stretch of Washington Avenue, how do you catch people doing it?

Adding some cameras to high-traffic intersections (and passing the laws necessary to enable them) would be a great place to start.

Even more, add curb extensions to make those maneuvers impossible. I don't think the bike lane on Washington is itself wide enough to do this, even with the buffer. It's that no-parking zone which enables it.