Green Line / Central Corridor construction thread (archive)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
Snelbian
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby Snelbian » April 8th, 2013, 2:41 pm

It's really not that big of a divider. We're talking about an interrupted barrier on a busy thoroughfare that didn't get all that many jaywalkers to begin with (and, to be fair, it's not so high that people couldn't still do that). Hardly comparable to a trench entire blocks wide bisecting the city. I walk and drive through there all the time as I live just south of it and do a lot of my shopping around Midway - it hasn't seemed to impact pedestrian movement in the slightest. There are just as many people walking across University as there were before. And when the LRT opens, there will be even more.

MNdible
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby MNdible » April 8th, 2013, 4:23 pm

The kvetch here is that there are some low walls so that people feel protected from traffic and to cut down on random crosswalking? And they've created an uncrossable chasm?

There must be some greater miscarriage of justice somewhere that we can get worked up over.

UptownSport
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby UptownSport » April 8th, 2013, 7:57 pm

Kvetching or not, I wouldn't doubt same was said for 94-
People have full ability to walk street along each side; and cross.

talindsay
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby talindsay » April 8th, 2013, 8:08 pm

Kvetching or not, I wouldn't doubt same was said for 94-
People have full ability to walk street along each side; and cross.
You're not wrong, but let's not be equivocal here - there is a huge qualitative difference. It's like comparing a fight with your sister to the Battle of the Somme. Just because "the same was said" doesn't mean it's an accurate comparison.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 8th, 2013, 8:51 pm

Again, I'm confused why we want to take a further step backwards on University Ave... We have a high-capacity, high-speed freeway between Minneapolis and St Paul (hey, it even has access points along the way). Is the train going to move much faster than cars ever did before (like, appreciably faster)? If not, why add the walls? Why not take the opportunity to turn University Ave in to much more of a street that happens to have a LRT running down the middle. A blue and yellow train is pretty hard to miss for people crossing the street.

No, this won't divide the city like a freeway does. It's not in a ditch, it isn't 200 feet wide, and there are crosswalks more frequent than freeway bridges. But we're all looking for the best urban experience here, it's ok to nitpick...

twinkess
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby twinkess » April 9th, 2013, 8:02 am

The kvetch here is that there are some low walls so that people feel protected from traffic and to cut down on random crosswalking? And they've created an uncrossable chasm?

There must be some greater miscarriage of justice somewhere that we can get worked up over.

Yeah wow. I can't believe this is even a discussion! Oh no, so you can't jaywalk anymore? Am I wrong in saying you can still legally cross the street in the same number of places you could before the "wall" went up?

mattaudio
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby mattaudio » April 9th, 2013, 8:14 am

Jaywalking ain't bad, especially where there's refuge medians. The idea of completely segregated space on a street, whether for cars or for transit vehicles, is an assumption worthy of challenge. Honestly I don't think it's that big of a deal here on University, and the implementation on University is much better than the railroad style implementation on Hiawatha. http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commut ... king/1837/

Vanostran
Block E
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby Vanostran » April 9th, 2013, 11:13 am

This is pretty standard for light rail. Look at Interstate Ave in portland, OR. You don't want stupid drivers blocking the tracks. This is what it was always going to be.

Didier
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby Didier » April 10th, 2013, 11:38 am

I live one block from University and I've said here several times that the pedestrian experience on the University sidewalks has greatly improved with the LRT tracks. Instead of walking next to a busy arterial road, University now feels much more manageable and pleasant.

So I'd argue that these walls have are having the exact opposite effect.

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LRV Op Dude
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby LRV Op Dude » April 15th, 2013, 3:49 pm

Green Line website now states the the line is 92%

Image
Blog: Old-Twin Cities Transit New-Twin Cities Transit

You Tube: Old, New

AKA: Bus Driver Dude

UptownSport
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby UptownSport » April 15th, 2013, 5:10 pm

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!! As long as it's gonna be there, anxious to see it running!!!!!!!!!!!

aguaman
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby aguaman » April 16th, 2013, 8:04 am

the concrete walls serve as a barrier to keep vehicular traffic from obstructing the tracks, especially at right turns. i have witnessed many vehicles 'offtracking' in downtown st paul on cedar street. if a train was there, the front driver side of the vehicle would be struck by the lrv. or should i say will be struck?

also, the walls could serve as a barrier to snow wakes and salt spray in winter.

aguaman
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby aguaman » April 16th, 2013, 8:17 am

This is pretty standard for light rail. Look at Interstate Ave in portland, OR. You don't want stupid drivers blocking the tracks. This is what it was always going to be.
i don't recall seeing this as anywhere else? where have you seen it enough to call it the standard?

i think it is so awesome in portland because of the simplicity of the lines.

here's there fourth line, opened the same time as hiawatha line, divided by bollards:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=45.549935,- ... 3,,0,12.38


this is drastically different from their first line, completed in 1986:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=45.522667,- ... 9,,0,-1.92

their second, third, and fifth lines aren't really comparable because they don't run on arterials like university. they barely use salt the way we do here, so maybe that's why they don't need the walls...

mulad
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby mulad » April 16th, 2013, 9:53 am

Any idea what the LRT speeds are on those segments? I suspect someone freaked out at the idea of trains consistently running at 35 mph -- nevermind that cars/trucks often get up to that speed, although this overprotective design can be partly explained by the fact that trains can't stop as easily. 35 mph is certainly worthy of concern (since a pedestrian hit at that speed will most likely be killed), but the freakout should more or less be equally applied to the roadway too. Nobody would stand for that.

I have to say I didn't expect these big barriers. I'm a bit worried they'll cause more problems than they'll solve -- will a train get knocked off the tracks during a collision at an intersection and slam into the end of one of these barriers?

I only ever expected something like the 1986 line from the previous post -- a simple curb separating a gravel railbed from the street, with some wider spaces at pedestrian crossings.

Now, some of the barriers along University probably make sense for protecting pedestrians as they walk to/from station platforms. Walking along an exposed median would be pretty uncomfortable. But those walkways are a small minority of the overall corridor.

UptownSport
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby UptownSport » April 17th, 2013, 12:24 am

I have to say I didn't expect these big barriers. I'm a bit worried they'll cause more problems than they'll solve -- will a train get knocked off the tracks during a collision at an intersection and slam into the end of one of these barriers?
DT Minneapolis, there's only 1/4 or half sized curbs, people can and do easily drive over them.
I understand speed will be higher on Central.

I've already seen a semi hung up because he couldn't turn sharply enough- So it has already 'caused' a problem.

I wonder if this should have been a streetcar (replace the 16 instead of now having buses, cars and trains) and planned for HSR between the cities and U. It certainly would've looked better.

Doubt they'll be tearing it up, though.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby min-chi-cbus » April 17th, 2013, 8:23 am

Slightly off-topic (sorry!), but what is the name of the train transit system in the Twin Cities going to be called again? You know, like Atlanta's is MARTA, Cleveland's is the Rapid, San Fran's is BART, etc....

Silophant
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby Silophant » April 17th, 2013, 9:14 am

I believe it will be called the METRO, based on the signs at the new Green Line stations.
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Vanostran
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby Vanostran » April 23rd, 2013, 5:46 pm

Maybe TURD..

Trans
Urban
Rapid
Deployment

web

Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby web » April 23rd, 2013, 7:18 pm

fresno has a great name

Fresno Area Rapid Transit

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Le Sueur
Landmark Center
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Re: Green Line (Central)

Postby Le Sueur » April 24th, 2013, 4:08 am

^^They went with FART when they were so close to something great like Fresno Regional Adventure Network!
-Sidenote: We should have an entire discussion on creative transit names.


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