Green Line / Central Corridor construction thread (archive)

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby web » May 10th, 2014, 5:08 pm

so soon......sheesh are people stupid or what?

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Anondson » May 10th, 2014, 5:23 pm

There will be a long long learning curve. Might as well put fenders on the rail cars, it will be cheaper to replace the fender.

Second thought, there should be a special license plate for people so stupid they get rammed by a LRT, like convicted drunk drivers need whiskey plates for a while. That way everyone else can make accommodations for their eventual risk taking behavior. Smash by LRT, immediate guilt.

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby IllogicalJake » May 11th, 2014, 9:52 am

Heh. Reminds me of just the other day, seeing an articulated Metro bus blocking both the green-lit travel lane and LRT tracks (and not to mention the crosswalk,) on 5th St while waiting 'in line' for a stop on Marquette. No trains around at the time but made me wonder how a train could handle that.
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby MSPtoMKE » May 11th, 2014, 7:29 pm

http://www.metrotransit.org/Green-Line-buses
This page says updated schedules for the Green Line service change will be available May 16th. That is a bit earlier than they are usually released ahead of a service change. That will be the first chance to see the nitty-gritty details of the changes, like how late in the day increased service lasts, and what the Owl schedule for the Green Line and/or 16 looks like.

Here is a .pdf of the handout showing the overview of changes. Not any new information, just published in a more polished format.
http://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/ ... turing.pdf

Perhaps a new/refreshed design of the system map is in store?
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Chauncey87 » May 13th, 2014, 9:27 pm

"Met Council engineers working to speed up travel time on Green Line"

"Traffic engineers for the Metropolitan Council have exactly one month to figure out how to speed up light-rail trains along the new Green Line.

Test trains along the route connecting St. Paul and Minneapolis have been taking an hour or longer to travel from one end to the other, exceeding initial projections of 40 minutes.

Met Council officials they're working hard to shave off those extra minutes in the weeks leading up to the June 14 launch."

"They clocked in at an average of 67 minutes for the 11-mile trip."

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/05/13 ... me?refid=0

Over one hour to travel only 11 miles. :/

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby FISHMANPET » May 13th, 2014, 9:32 pm

They're gonna eat so much crow if they have to replace all the timed maps on the trains.

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Tcmetro » May 13th, 2014, 9:45 pm

I drove down University last week from Prior to Rice Street. The LRT hit all the red lights and I was able to keep up with it. Hopefully they can resolve the problems, at 67 minutes LRT is slower than the 50 bus!

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Nick » May 13th, 2014, 9:46 pm

Test trains along the route connecting St. Paul and Minneapolis have been taking an hour or longer to travel from one end to the other, exceeding initial projections of 40 minutes.
...what? Uh, that's a disaster.

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Tcmetro » May 13th, 2014, 9:51 pm

Project officials say end-to-end travel times are not the best way to judge the project. Most of the passengers, Fuhrmann said, won't use the line to ride from one downtown to the other.

"It's not so important what the overall travel time is from end to end," he said. "What's really important is that these new Green Line passengers have a very high quality and reliable ride."

Speed, Furhmann, is not the first priority for the Green Line. The Met Council is keeping the express bus service for commuters who want to catch a ride between the downtowns, which typically takes about a half-hour.
Yet the 94 bus is being eliminated nights and weekends and reduced in half during the daytime?

If the travel times increase to say, 50 minutes, there is a huge benefit in keeping the 94 bus. Express buses can make the trip in 20-25 minutes, and perhaps 5-10 min slower in rush hour.

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby David Greene » May 13th, 2014, 9:58 pm

Tcmetro wrote:I drove down University last week from Prior to Rice Street. The LRT hit all the red lights and I was able to keep up with it.
So signal priority doesn't work? That bodes ill for aBRT.

Nick is right, this will be an absolute disaster if it isn't fixed.

How can the time esitimates be that far off? I could understand 20% deviation but this is well over 50%. What assumptions were made that turned out to be wrong? The post-mortem on this will be quite interesting. Too bad we'll likely never hear about it.

EDIT: Oh, signals aren't all ready yet. Media hype.
Last edited by David Greene on May 13th, 2014, 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Tcmetro » May 13th, 2014, 10:11 pm

I suppose it is the initial testing phase, and there are opportunities to retime signals or give trains better priority. Additionally, the article seems to state that the drivers are being extra cautious and are still becoming accustomed to the route.

As for TSP on the aBRT routes, I'm curious to how that has worked on Central Ave and Cedar Ave in Apple Valley. I haven't heard anything about either of those corridors since implementation.

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby acs » May 13th, 2014, 10:56 pm

Slow end to end speed has to be the greatest threat to the success of this line. If they can't get these timing issues resolved then it doesn't bode well. I can't be the only one on this board using Central as a litmus test for running LRT through high density neighborhoods on its rout.

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby web » May 13th, 2014, 11:06 pm

boston runs its green line forever thru a dense urban area......why is metro always behind the 8 ball.....same with a lot of salt lake city,houston,san diego,sacramento,san jose,la,san fransico,ummm and a bunch of others why is there always a signal timing issue?

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Chava » May 14th, 2014, 4:39 am

All of my excitement to ride this just left the room. At those speeds, it won't be part of my day commute.

I can see test drivers being very cautious. But they're not crawling down the track so must be some switching or signal issues. People were already ridiculing the 39 minute point to point time as being slower than driving. Sigh.

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby ECtransplant » May 14th, 2014, 4:58 am

Does the current testing give weak or full signal priority? Is the planned final state weak or full signal priority?

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Tcmetro » May 14th, 2014, 5:31 am

It won't be like Hiawatha, which has full priority from 11th St to Terminal 2. It will have the ability to extend the green lights for the trains, but will not change the cycle for the train.

That's how I understand it at least.

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby nate » May 14th, 2014, 6:22 am

A Guy Who Knows Things told me the slow speeds are the city of St Paul's fault. The equipment referenced in the article was supposed to have been installed months ago. They've been dragging their feet on retiming all the lights, too. I have no doubt that the signal clusterf*** on the watm slows the trains down, too.

This jives with the observations many on this board have made, such as the trains hitting every single light in DT St Paul, or leaving a station only to immediately run into a red light.

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby holmstar » May 14th, 2014, 7:05 am

Holy cow people. The line is still in testing, and they are still tweaking timing. It's way too early to be freaking out about travel time. If it's still way off of predictions at the time the line actually opens, that would be a different matter. Calm down and give them a chance to work on it.

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby gpete » May 14th, 2014, 7:21 am

And don't forget MPR is still bitter at MetCouncil over the vibration issue. http://www.current.org/2014/04/report-n ... or-mprapm/

I'm sure some people at MPR love negative news stories about the Green Line.

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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mullen » May 14th, 2014, 7:42 am

there are too many stops. is this that difficult to figure out? too many stops people.


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