Green Line / Central Corridor construction thread (archive)

[NickP]

Also, isn't this just far-side boarding, the same configuration that people have been advocating for buses? This isn't meant to be confrontational, but why would it be favorable for buses and not trains?

[mattaudio]

Trains theoretically wouldn't have to worry about red lights, nor do stopped trains block turning movements for vehicles like stopped near-side buses do. Trains generally have segregated ROW and platforms, buses generally use traffic lanes and curbs. Also, one of the advantages for buses is that it reinforces directionality of travel at branches, turns, etc.... which is less critical for LRT (since platforms and station infrastructure make it clear, especially if adjacent to a turn in the route).

Far side stops are not really a problem for trains, but they don't have the same advantages they do for buses. But my guess is the "ideal" train stop would be a center island platform, since it means less duplication of amenities (more available amenities per rider). And on the hypothetical chance that a particular right of way hosts multiple services, center island stations afford the opportunity for cross-platform transfers.

[IllogicalJake]

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... inutes-end

Officially 48 minutes from end to end.

[mulad]

Far-side stops make signal preemption simpler, since transit vehicles only need to ask for a few seconds of extra time to pass through, and you don't need to worry about the variable amount of time that it takes to unload/load passengers. It can be better for people getting off of the vehicle who want to cross the street, since the transit vehicle has already passed through. The alternative of near-side stops also frequently results in the problem of stopping to pick up passengers, and having the process take so long that the light turns red just as the vehicle is about to get underway.

I'm not sure what the problems have been here, but there are likely a mix of issues related to preemption, the order of signal phases, the duration of the phases, and setting up the signals at multiple intersections into groups so transit vehicles can get a "green wave". For much of University Ave, there are only two signaled intersections between stops, so that shouldn't be overly complicated. (Trying to sequence a lot of intersections at once would get complicated quickly since the number of possibilities increases exponentially with the number of signals included).

[Scott Wood]

Anecdotally, I was in Midway yesterday and the trains stopped at just about every stop light, but so did the cars. So even with stops at Fairview and Snelling stations, the trains were pretty much even with traffic. I have a feeling that the cars will eventually pull away when they get into less congested stretches of University, though.

Something that is kind of curious to me is that the Snelling stations are both located right after a stoplight. So I noticed trains waiting at a stoplight, then pulling forward 100 feet and stopping again at the station. It seems like doing it the other way around might have been more efficient, since you could, as they say, kill two birds with one stone.

You can have the same problem the other way as well. Yesterday I was waiting to turn at Fairview Ave, and saw the vertical bar start to flash as soon as the eastbound train left the station. The green for trains and cars going straight seemed longer than usual, so I wonder if the train was invoking priority while stopping at the station, and it didn't last quite long enough for the train to go through after leaving the station.

Another thing I noticed was that the schedule shows the same travel time at rush hour as at midnight. I'd think that it would be easier to coordinate the signals and give stronger priority to trains when traffic is light. For that matter, is there any advance coordination, or is the priority purely a local response to the train being a certain distance away?

[talindsay]

For that matter, is there any advance coordination, or is the priority purely a local response to the train being a certain distance away?

I don't know for sure what they're doing along Central but when Hiawatha opened it was all just local response; my understanding is that it's still basically all local response, and that Central will operate that way as well. It's hard to coordinate very far in advance without introducing more trouble than help.

[mattaudio]

On the Hiawatha stretch, it operates more like a railroad with RR crossing signals that preempt stoplights on the adjacent street to allow cross traffic to clear the junction. Hiawatha trains never stop for stoplights south of downtown, and the trains were designed to go even faster (but neighbors complained about the e-horn, so they go slower and just use their e-bell).

[kellonathan]

Print version of the Green Line schedule is now available online.
http://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/ ... enLine.pdf

One thing I noticed---seems like they're going to continue serving both of the new and old Target Field station platforms?......Why?

[acs]

Yeah I was out in the middle of the day yesterday and saw a blue line train come into the station from the south, expecting it to go right through to the new platform. Nope, it stopped at the old platform. I couldn't see if it also stopped at the new platform two, sorry.

[IllogicalJake]

Yeah I was out in the middle of the day yesterday and saw a blue line train come into the station from the south, expecting it to go right through to the new platform. Nope, it stopped at the old platform. I couldn't see if it also stopped at the new platform two, sorry.

They've been stopping at both for a while now. I wasn't sure if it was just transitioning until an "official" changeover was made, but it seems it's going to continue... A little odd, and can be a little confusing to out of towners, I'd think...

[FISHMANPET]

So they're going gang busters running 3 car trains on campus right now, I'm seeing one every few minutes. Will upload a pic when I get back to my office.

[talindsay]

So the barriers are gone from the west bank station and I went and explored a little. the go to card readers offer an option for the downtown zone - do all Hiawatha stations offer downtown zone fares, or is this an indication that the west bank station will be part of the downtown zone?

[ProspectPete]

I wonder if Metro Transit has a scramble plan in place if the system is disabled in anyway shape or form. Im thinking of how even a minor accident can bring to a halt the train involved on the tracks. I understand that every few stops they have the ability to cross over tracks and such, but even that seems like it would be a huge blow to the efficiency of the system. An even worse scenario: a car takes out a catenary pole and both directions are disabled. Now I guess the system can run normally between the sentinel event, but, will they have a bunch of busses and drivers standing around like back up QB's..... just in case? I'm thinking the height of rush hour maybe on Tuesday, July 15th. Around 5pm.
How do other systems deal with and plan for these eventualities?

[FISHMANPET]

I'm thinking the height of rush hour maybe on Tuesday, July 15th. Around 5pm.

Um, did you just make terrorist threats against the Green Line?

[Chava]

Shuttle buses. I distinctly recall a few instances in Chicago when either the red line or brown line trains were not running due to fires next to the track. It was a pain but buses got everyone around.

[ProspectPete]

Yeah prospect pete the terrorist....Good one. A better bet is on the terrorist is called Murphy. As in Murphy's law.
The MLB All Star game is that night, and it will be the green lines first big event. It would be the worst possible timing for a disruption in service. And as we've seen how a minor snag shuts down the line in at least one direction... I'm wondering how metro transit is planning to deal with an accident on the tracks et al. If a bus breaks down...simple, send another bus. 3 LRT cars packed with 100's of people.... repeated several times on downstream of the accident. They would need a LOT of busses and back up drivers to get people moving, no? I guess it must've happened a few times on the blue line.

[IllogicalJake]

I wonder if Metro Transit has a scramble plan in place if the system is disabled in anyway shape or form. Im thinking of how even a minor accident can bring to a halt the train involved on the tracks.

Of course they do. They have shuttle buses and designated stops to replace each LRT stop in the event of trains being down.

[Silophant]

So the barriers are gone from the west bank station and I went and explored a little. the go to card readers offer an option for the downtown zone - do all Hiawatha stations offer downtown zone fares, or is this an indication that the west bank station will be part of the downtown zone?

I'm not sure, but extending the downtown zone out to West Bank Station, and, more importantly, Cedar-Riverside station, would be a pretty simple, cheap boost to transit equity.

[FISHMANPET]

As promised:

[downfall]

Metro Transit us hosting a Green Line open house today for their staff and families. Boardings are at Union Station and Target Field Station with no stops in between.