Green Line (Central Corridor)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4327
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby David Greene » January 28th, 2016, 9:25 pm

LRV Op Dude wrote:The track number is indicated on the reader boards.
But it's not visible when message are being displayed, like, "the next train leaves in one minute" -- exactly the time you need to know!

The bigger problem for me was the actions of the operator. I was literally frightened by the train suddenly moving next to me without warning. Obviously I backed away but it was quite a startle. People have been killed on platforms when running next to a moving train.

What is your take on proper signaling before departure? Heavy rail has to do it. Why not LRT?

mulad
Moderator
Posts: 2721
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 6:30 pm
Location: Saint Paul
Contact:

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mulad » January 28th, 2016, 10:37 pm

Someone with direct knowledge of the train operating rules may comment, and it may be that the operator did the wrong thing. Still, there are trains that operate all over Europe with much more limited use of horns/bells. We have an over-reliance on warning noises here, and they're a detriment to the environment around them.

There are subtle sounds of the doors locking just before a train departs, and the circle of LEDs around the blue "door open" button will go out.

Our platforms are fairly safe if you're up on top of them, since the platform height matches the floor height, and there's a very small gap between. (There is an exception with the gap between LRVs where the couplers meet -- eliminating this gap would be a benefit of longer LRVs. Subway lines often have chains spanning this gap, and I think some services have more substantial barriers on the trains.) There is a greater risk on the ramps at the ends of the platforms, but you have to end up on the wrong side of the barrier fence. Obviously, if a person is in the guideway as a train enters a platform area, very bad things can/will happen.

Tcmetro
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1116
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 8:02 pm
Location: Chicago (ex-Minneapolitan)

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Tcmetro » January 28th, 2016, 11:23 pm

Los Angeles has placed bollards on subway and light rail platforms where there is a gap between cars.

mulad
Moderator
Posts: 2721
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 6:30 pm
Location: Saint Paul
Contact:

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mulad » January 28th, 2016, 11:47 pm

That's interesting. There's been a regulation on the books since 1991 that requires barriers between cars, but it's written for "high-platform" level-boarding installations. There probably weren't any low-floor LRVs in the U.S. at the time, and the regulation is in need of an update. Here's something that makes it sound like the FTA will start requiring these sometime fairly soon:

http://www.fta.dot.gov/newsroom/12910_16573.html

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7194
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mattaudio » January 29th, 2016, 10:33 am

Platform screen doors.

MNdible
is great.
Posts: 5002
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby MNdible » January 29th, 2016, 10:52 am

Is this really a problem we need to be worried about?

mulad
Moderator
Posts: 2721
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 6:30 pm
Location: Saint Paul
Contact:

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mulad » January 29th, 2016, 12:05 pm

Yes.

The bollards look like a cheap and simple solution -- I haven't been aware of them until now, but they seem reasonable. They also serve as useful markers for the length of trains.

Ultimately, we'll probably need platform screens with automated doors, like mattaudio mentioned, but that's going to be a pretty expensive and somewhat tricky thing to accomplish -- they require active communication between the train and platform, and will be exposed to the elements, requiring a potentially significant maintenance effort. The bollards won't break down due to power or weather issues, though there's a risk of vandalism (but that's true for everything in the corridor).

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4426
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby FISHMANPET » January 29th, 2016, 1:16 pm

Door screens also require the doors on all cars to be in the exact same position. I don't think the Type I and the Type II cars have the doors in the exact same place, do they?
Peter Bajurny
peter@bajurny.us
@FISHMANPET
612-208-6618

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7194
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mattaudio » January 29th, 2016, 2:52 pm

I was completely joking when I suggested platform screen doors. Though I do think they could make sense in grade separated stations, such as Terminal 1 or Lake Street.

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4426
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby FISHMANPET » January 29th, 2016, 4:26 pm

Door screens are great when the rest of the system is completely grade separated, and then you can run driver less trains!

Though more realistically speaking doors, I would like if there were markings to indicate where the doors would be, like I noticed Denver does. But our doors aren't consistent.
Peter Bajurny
peter@bajurny.us
@FISHMANPET
612-208-6618

DanPatchToget
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 146
Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby DanPatchToget » April 5th, 2016, 2:14 pm

I apologize if this has been asked before, but far down the road if they wanted to tunnel under the East Bank to improve travel time and keep all the idiots on Washington Avenue from walking in front of a train would there be vibration problems like what occurred with the current project, and how can these be addressed?

grant1simons2
Capella Tower
Posts: 3917
Joined: February 8th, 2014, 11:33 pm
Location: Marcy-Holmes

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby grant1simons2 » April 5th, 2016, 2:53 pm

Hey now. There aren't as many idiots walking in front of trains at the U. At least not as many as when it was in its first year. You want idiots walking in front of trains, go to Warehouse district.

ProspectPete
Landmark Center
Posts: 292
Joined: August 6th, 2013, 12:49 pm

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby ProspectPete » April 5th, 2016, 3:15 pm

Or better yet Midway. Where some actually walk down the tracks like it's a sidewalk.

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4426
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby FISHMANPET » April 5th, 2016, 7:51 pm

Have there been any incidents with pedestrians on the Transit Mall? I guess there is the thing where it goes slower there than other places, but still, this isn't the apocalypse that some people thought it would be.
Peter Bajurny
peter@bajurny.us
@FISHMANPET
612-208-6618

nate
Landmark Center
Posts: 275
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 2:01 pm

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby nate » April 6th, 2016, 7:26 am

ProspectPete wrote:Or better yet Midway. Where some actually walk down the tracks like it's a sidewalk.
I have seen people riding bikes down the train tracks, and when they see an oncoming train they switch to the other track. Scary scary scary.

nate
Landmark Center
Posts: 275
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 2:01 pm

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby nate » April 7th, 2016, 4:06 pm

Metro Transit PD has installed a giant, diesel powered, portable security camera on the corner of 5th and Cedar at Central Station.

MinnMonkey
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 143
Joined: July 6th, 2012, 11:31 am

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby MinnMonkey » April 13th, 2016, 2:25 pm

Looks like the city change the traffic light at 5th Ave S and 5th Street by the Armory. Now you are able to turn right onto 5th Ave from 5th Street and cross over the LRT tracks on green.

This greatly reduces both the amount of time 5th Street has a green light and the time that the train has to pass through since they are now don't happen simultaneously. This is causing backups of up to 2 blocks for cars, and requiring almost all trains to stop at this intersection.

Hopefully it is temporary.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7194
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mattaudio » April 13th, 2016, 2:43 pm

I assume this is because they are keeping the travel lane on the south side of the tracks (which goes to 4th Ave southbound) but are getting rid of the travel lane on the north side of the tracks (which goes to 5th Ave northbound). Because without that new stoplight configuration, a few dozen parking spaces would dump onto 5th St and require going south and looping around the block before heading north again. This seems ridic.

VAStationDude
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 784
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:30 am

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby VAStationDude » April 29th, 2016, 6:09 pm

Trains have partial preemption at 3rd avenue north. The train I rode to target field cruised throughand it defiantly appeared other trains were preempting the traffic signal crossing 5th. It's very encouraging to see the city allowing preemption downtown. Maybe 4th and Chicago will be next?

Online
User avatar
Tiller
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 655
Joined: January 17th, 2015, 11:58 am

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Tiller » June 22nd, 2016, 9:40 am



Return to “Transportation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest