Green Line / Central Corridor construction thread (archive)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
ProspectPete
Union Depot
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby ProspectPete » May 24th, 2014, 5:34 pm

I'll throw my two cents in here. It seems like the trains spend a lot of time monkeying around 280. Often I see the train stopping twice there in a short amount of time while it waits for for frontage road traffic. Once today I even saw two trains occupying the bridge over 280, both awaiting their respective vertical bars. Sees like some minutes could be shaved off there.

xandrex
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby xandrex » May 24th, 2014, 11:28 pm

And, more to the point, the express 94 bus is a much better option for downtown to downtown trips.
I'm a little surprised no one has talked about eventually rebranding the 94 as part of the Metro system. Buy some more Red Line buses and build a handful of stations (even just the aBRT designs) and they could claim it as the "Express" service.

But then, it seems like there are a lot of opportunities to leverage the emerging Metro brand that MT hasn't really picked up on yet. Pulling together things like this and putting them on a legible, easy-to-remember map would go a long way toward making the overall system in MSP more friendly to locals and visitors alike.
I have to imagine this would invite the criticism of anti-transit folks who would then scream, "See! The express bus moves faster! Why did we build the boondoggle choo choo for a billion dollars? MOAR ROADS!"

;)

EOst
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby EOst » May 25th, 2014, 8:01 am

I have to imagine this would invite the criticism of anti-transit folks who would then scream, "See! The express bus moves faster! Why did we build the boondoggle choo choo for a billion dollars? MOAR ROADS!"

;)
Seems like they're pretty happy to do that anyway. ;)

mulad
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mulad » May 27th, 2014, 2:29 pm

Metro Transit posted a new time-lapse cab-view video of a test train running down the line:


mattaudio
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mattaudio » May 27th, 2014, 2:33 pm

That stopped at a lot of stoplights. Every block in Downtown St. Paul.

aeisenberg
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby aeisenberg » May 27th, 2014, 2:55 pm

Metro Transit posted a new time-lapse cab-view video of a test train running down the line:

Well, there you go guys. 3 minutes from end to end.
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Minneapolisite » May 27th, 2014, 6:20 pm

As we keep pointing out, that's the end-to-end time, from Target Field to Union Depot. The amount of people that will actually go from the far side of one downtown to the far side of the other is very small. Even if your trip is only from Nicollet Mall station to Central station, that's your five minute savings. And, more to the point, the express 94 bus is a much better option for downtown to downtown trips.
Visitors aren't going to be hunting down which bus route number there may be for an express downtown-downtown connector: they're going to be using LRT. Whenever I travel like when I go to Chicago I only take the L. I'm not sitting around trying to find what bus goes where, which lines connect, I just hop on one of the colored routes and head out to my destinations: all of which are nearby the rail line. Never have visited a neighborhood (and spent money) that's only served by bus over there.

VAStationDude
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby VAStationDude » May 27th, 2014, 6:58 pm

The green line will serve as serious transportation for locals and showcase of the ethnic diversity of Minneapolis Saint Paul to visitors. The vast majority of downtown to downtown commuters will use the 94, as they do today. The tiny number of tourists going between the downtowns will choose the train and hopefully experience an inexpensive meal along university far tastier than could be found at their hotel. While I'm more than a little disappointed we couldn't get more favorable train traffic light priority, the green line is a massive game changer for mobility in our region. Unlike the tinker toy being contemplated for Nicollet avenue.

Silophant
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Silophant » May 27th, 2014, 9:12 pm

Yeah, I have no problem with visitors to the city taking a little longer to see some of the actual city, instead of the walls surrounding I-94.
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IllogicalJake
Target Field
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby IllogicalJake » May 28th, 2014, 8:17 am

That stopped at a lot of stoplights. Every block in Downtown St. Paul.
Yeah – I know it's not done yet, but it's frustrating how many non-station stops the train came to in that video.
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nate
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby nate » May 28th, 2014, 8:51 am

I've seen several instances where a train pulls up to a stoplight just as it is turning red, and has to wait through the whole light cycle. This is the scenario where the signal is supposed to hold a few seconds to let the train through, as I understand it. Maybe they're waiting until there's passengers on the train to start using the signal priority to its full extent.

mulad
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mulad » May 28th, 2014, 8:56 am

On the other side of things, I've been noticing that operators often take several seconds to start moving after the signal changes. Is there something that prevents the trains from moving right away? The trains also accelerate at a snail's pace at times, but both of those things could be just normal reactions to poor signal timing.

Wedgeguy
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Wedgeguy » May 28th, 2014, 10:08 am

I will suggest that a lot of the late starts and low off the mark starts are due to the increased number of new drivers that they have to train this. Like riding a bike or learning to parallel park, you need to go slowly to get used to how to work the controls so you don't knock people over in the train from a too abrupt start. Things will go fine, there will be teething pains as both the driver's and the public learn to drive together along the route. I see no dooms day scenario. Just an adjustment time like we did with the Blue line.

IllogicalJake
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby IllogicalJake » May 28th, 2014, 12:03 pm

I will suggest that a lot of the late starts and low off the mark starts are due to the increased number of new drivers that they have to train this. Like riding a bike or learning to parallel park, you need to go slowly to get used to how to work the controls so you don't knock people over in the train from a too abrupt start. Things will go fine, there will be teething pains as both the driver's and the public learn to drive together along the route. I see no dooms day scenario. Just an adjustment time like we did with the Blue line.
Definitely true. I'm overall really excited for this line and know it won't be a doomsday scenario.

But, hey, still would like to have the smoothest possible start we can get, for the sake of a good first impression on the public if nothing else. :)
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grant1simons2
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby grant1simons2 » May 28th, 2014, 12:16 pm

Someone will still come on after the first ride and tell us how disappointed they are

mullen
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mullen » May 28th, 2014, 12:20 pm

i might just move to live near this. i'm so tired of riding the 18 bus.

IllogicalJake
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby IllogicalJake » May 28th, 2014, 12:23 pm

Someone will still come on after the first ride and tell us how disappointed they are
As humans do. Are any of us immune to first impressions leaving bad tastes, figuratively, in our mouth?
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Didier
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Didier » May 28th, 2014, 12:51 pm

Anecdotally, I was in Midway yesterday and the trains stopped at just about every stop light, but so did the cars. So even with stops at Fairview and Snelling stations, the trains were pretty much even with traffic. I have a feeling that the cars will eventually pull away when they get into less congested stretches of University, though.

Something that is kind of curious to me is that the Snelling stations are both located right after a stoplight. So I noticed trains waiting at a stoplight, then pulling forward 100 feet and stopping again at the station. It seems like doing it the other way around might have been more efficient, since you could, as they say, kill two birds with one stone.

ProspectPete
Union Depot
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby ProspectPete » May 28th, 2014, 2:13 pm

Agreed. Wait until winter when the freezing passengers are watching their train stopped and waiting 100 feet away at the intersection while the traffic signals go through their cycles. Has anyone here really seen any evidence of ANY signal priority down university in St Paul? I know downtown has improved. But seriously. At best it's random. I drive up an down university multiple times a day and I see no evidence that the train is any different than a car. Maybe like they said earlier, they are just waiting until the last week to flip on the magic, but I doubt it. Now I know where a lot of the 45+ minutes is spent, and I'm not even an engineer!

MNdible
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby MNdible » May 28th, 2014, 2:36 pm

In this split station configuration, the stations have to be on the far side because on the near side, there's almost always a protected left turn lane. Since the train has eliminated a number of cross streets, the remaining opportunities to make left turns become more critical.

Again, once things are working better, trains approaching a signal should be able to extend it, so hopefully in many cases they won't be stopped on the near side.


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