What if We Shut Down Our Transit System?

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
DanPatchToget
Wells Fargo Center
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Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm

What if We Shut Down Our Transit System?

Postby DanPatchToget » April 15th, 2016, 12:25 pm

For a moment, let's pretend we actually agree to what the anti-transit, pro-automobile groups say. The Met Council is either stripped of it's power or is taken over by a much more conservative leadership. No more light rail, as in the extension of the Blue and Green lines are dropped. And to make sure they're never discussed or studied again, a legislative ban is placed on discussing ANY light rail project, or rail project in general, in the Twin Cities (like what happened to the Dan Patch Line). The current Green and Blue lines can stay, for now, but if funding becomes available to scrap them then sell off the light rail cars and scrap the steel rails. Northstar is shutdown and will never return. I'm not sure how much, if any, funding from the state goes toward Amtrak, but if there is any then that goes as well.

Now for the buses. Red Line is shut down. Orange Line stays in it's current form as Route 535. A Line is scrapped and Route 84 stays as is. Gold Line is scrapped. The proposed arterial rapid transit system is scrapped in favor of repaving roads and improving arterial roads to allow for more cars. Besides the busiest express bus routes they're cut as well. So basically we stick with a system of continually building new roads, bridges, and interchanges to handle more cars. Since autonomous vehicles will be commonplace within ten years, traffic flow will improve so there won't be a need for a modern public transit system comparable to European cities. Since we have plenty of land available, we can develop as far out into rural areas as we need for the foreseeable future. So the public transit system won't be completely shut down, but there will only be a small bus system.

Congrats to Lakeville, you need no longer worry about big, scary trains bringing in hoodlums from the decrepit urban areas. Congrats to the group "Say NO to Southwest LRT", you need no longer worry about murderous trains thundering through Eden Prairie and killing your children. Congrats to Lake Elmo, you need no longer worry about the socialist bus system that would, in your mind, replace the current express buses and also lead to building massive Soviet style apartment complexes and turning Lake Elmo into a slum.

So, under this scenario, what would need to happen to improve our road infrastructure?

If you feel confused or concerned about this post, think of it as "a modest proposal." ;)

Anondson
IDS Center
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Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was

Re: What if We Shut Down Our Transit System?

Postby Anondson » April 15th, 2016, 12:47 pm

We had bus strikes in the recent past, predictions of traffic apocalypse.

It didn't happen, if I recall. It continues to add fuel anti-transit sentiments.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
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Re: What if We Shut Down Our Transit System?

Postby mattaudio » April 15th, 2016, 12:50 pm

We shut down 169 or 36 for long construction projects... I think that proves we could live without those freeways, too.

RailBaronYarr
Capella Tower
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Joined: September 16th, 2012, 4:31 pm

Re: What if We Shut Down Our Transit System?

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 15th, 2016, 1:06 pm

I hear a whole interstate bridge collapsed near downtown and our state's annual economy suffered by .01%

I'll be honest, this is an interesting scenario but I don't think I'll participate. It may be more likely than I'm willing to admit (driverless cars obviate the need for any transit besides a few high-capacity bus routes in the core).

VAStationDude
US Bank Plaza
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Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:30 am

Re: What if We Shut Down Our Transit System?

Postby VAStationDude » April 15th, 2016, 1:07 pm

Autonomous vehicles will be ten years off in ten years. Ditto for every decade long interval for at least the next century.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
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Re: What if We Shut Down Our Transit System?

Postby mattaudio » April 15th, 2016, 1:24 pm

Feels good to agree with you VA.

David Greene
IDS Center
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Re: What if We Shut Down Our Transit System?

Postby David Greene » April 15th, 2016, 1:38 pm

The typical congestion argument (transit reduces congestion!) has always been a loser for the pro-transit crowd. I think it's pretty safe to say that transit doesn't impact congestion in any meaningful way and won't for the foreseeable future. Indeed if we completely shut down our transit system, most people wouldn't notice. They'll still be stuck on Hwy. 100 and they'll still fill up whatever expansion we do.

There are at least three fundamental reasons to do transit:

- Provide an alternative for people to avoid the congestion altogether (or at least minimize its impact)

- Provide a way for people who can't drive to participate in their communities (social justice)

- Provide enabling infrastructure for better/more dense land use to save the planet (quite literally)

I'm sure people can think of more but those are the things I keep in front of my mind when talking to people about transit.

DanPatchToget
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1645
Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm

Re: What if We Shut Down Our Transit System?

Postby DanPatchToget » April 15th, 2016, 7:31 pm

The typical congestion argument (transit reduces congestion!) has always been a loser for the pro-transit crowd. I think it's pretty safe to say that transit doesn't impact congestion in any meaningful way and won't for the foreseeable future. Indeed if we completely shut down our transit system, most people wouldn't notice. They'll still be stuck on Hwy. 100 and they'll still fill up whatever expansion we do.

There are at least three fundamental reasons to do transit:

- Provide an alternative for people to avoid the congestion altogether (or at least minimize its impact)

- Provide a way for people who can't drive to participate in their communities (social justice)

- Provide enabling infrastructure for better/more dense land use to save the planet (quite literally)

I'm sure people can think of more but those are the things I keep in front of my mind when talking to people about transit.
Well, for the MSP region I can kind of agree. However from an observational standpoint of living in Oslo for four months, their public transit has actually reduced/prevented congestion significantly. Rush hour traffic can be a little backed up but that's about it in terms of congestion. Even during heavy road construction the traffic congestion hasn't increased significantly. I admit I don't have data or traffic stats from Oslo, this is from what I saw, heard, and read. It also helps for their public transit that their highways are the width of Highway 62 and are tollways.

masstrlk67
City Center
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Joined: December 23rd, 2014, 2:52 pm
Location: Northeast Minneapolis

Re: What if We Shut Down Our Transit System?

Postby masstrlk67 » April 16th, 2016, 2:08 pm

However from an observational standpoint of living in Oslo for four months, their public transit has actually reduced/prevented congestion significantly.
Better transit service :arrow: more transit use :arrow: less driving? Or way higher gas prices :arrow: less driving :arrow: more transit use :arrow: better transit service? ;)


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