urbanMSP

"Quality of life considerations..." Over a flipping bus stop. Please tell me they're just required to do this meeting and they'll build it anyway.

Its a bus stop. Its not like they're putting in an entire transit hub.

I would be more than pleased to have this in front of my home or business. Do people still not understand that transit users (including me) are average Joes going from point A to point B? Maybe making a quick stop at point C to support a business?

And I don't care about parking. We have enough of it. What we don't have enough of is high frequency and reliable bus routes.

I am pretty sure this is one of those required meetings and they will build it anyway. The Met Council already approved it. The meeting I believe is more for input on what side of the intersection the bus stop should be. Which the SB isn't even currently planned to be in front of Turtle Bread, and they are making a big stink about it.

according to one of the building owners on NextDoor, "every single building owner" in the node is against it. While I highly doubt this is true, they are whipping up a bunch of scare tactics like "remember when there was a gun shop here?" or "remember when things were boarded up", as if adding two BRT stations would cause the node to spiral into decline again... what do you even say to this?

If anything, it's the opposite. This businesses currently benefit from high frequency transit accesss at this node. If there's no D Line stop, they will not. I get that they think the bulk of their customers drive (I'd bet they wrong and a lot more walk than they think) but the number who arrive on transit is not zero, and reducing transit access will certainly put downward pressure on whatever the number actually is.

It's just such a head scratcher. I would think that forward thinking businesses would value the increased service, and it makes me question if I want to patronize them (I've already stopped going to Turtle Bread).

I'd agree that there are quite a few customers who are walking and biking to this node from the immediate area. My suspicion is that there are very few customers who are riding the bus there (although it would probably be great for helping employees who work in the area).

I think there should be a stop here. But I also appreciate that this will probably have negative impacts for sidewalk cafes, etc., depending on the final locations of the stops.

Do what I do with the West 7th businesses against Riverview and don't patronize them; or patronize them and kindly inform them that you took transit to access their business and upgraded transit would make it easier/better to access the area around their business. Might not change their mind, but then they know an average joe uses transit to access and patronize their business.

The "sidewalk cafes" are a few (4? maybe) tables at Town Hall Tap, four storefronts from the corner, and a handful at Burrito Mercado, farther south. (Streetview from 2011 shows outdoor seating at Turtle Bread, but I don't think I've ever actually seen that, and that's not where the bus stop will be).

Also, they haven't complained about negative impacts for sidewalk cafes. They've complained about parking, "nuisance" bus riders, noise and odors, blocked signage and conflicts with delivery trucks. Note that other than parking, those are all things that happen with the existing buses. And note that there's next to no impact on parking if the existing southbound bus stop replaces what might be lost.

Anyway, read more here: https://www.metrotransit.org/chicago-and-48th

Turtle Bread/Pizza Biga definitely have tables outside. We sit there whenever the weather allows (and we always walk or bike, regardless of season). Although we’re debating giving them up because of this.

We will absolutely use a BRT stop here. Looking forward to it, in fact.

https://www.facebook.com/events/259201251373515/

Please come to this today at 4:30 to show support for the 48th and Chicago Station, don't allow Turtle Bread to ruin this!

We are having same argument going about business patio areas and bus stops going in St. Anthony Park in St. Paul - bus stop at Como Ave and Doswell has blocked restaurant there (Karta Thai) from have sidewalk café, talk of moving it north because already stop one block away at Carter/library.


Looking at Chicago and 48th area, it seems like BRT stops could be placed in front of businesses with parking lots already, like liquor store for north bound stop and in front of Health Partners for south bound stop. This wouldn't block more traditional architecture buildings and leave room for sidewalk cafes at places that have them or might want them.

The space by the clinic, which is where the current southbound stop is located, is not big enough, I don't think. It's also before the stop light, further slowing service. The space by the liquor store definitely is not big enough, given the curb cut on Chicago.

But to the extent that this is a discussion about exactly where the stop goes, that's fine. You could put the southbound stop in front of the apartments farther down the 4800 block, for example (although I don't really see the point of moving the northbound one).

Up until now, though, Harvey et al have been trying to get rid of the stop altogether. That's a hard no.

Attended yesterday's meeting, quick summary:

I would say there was 50/50 support vs opposition.
Bicyclists and Car Drivers think they are entitled to the road.
Buses make lots of annoying sounds, yet they forget that the 5 already runs through the area.
Parking loss is minimal, yet it seems like the Apocalypse. Note I have driven there before, and had no issue finding parking within a block of where I was going.
Some racist banter....

You can refer to the Wedge Live tweets for quotes of what people said too.

Sounds like it will happen, seems like a incremental change that won't make anything a that much worse and will make it much better for riders.

Having lived near the now A Line, I can't express enough to people how excellent that aBRT is, and how much better for long time transit riders it is, how many people who drive everywhere and park everywhere will be attracted to using the BRT, how much more people, development, business etc will sprout from it. Being on BRT line will be nearly as good as LRT once more people learn more about BRT, how well it works, how nice the buses are and as these routes get connected to each other to have high frequency BRT and LRT be able to get someone so many places. I now live near Green Line and I really don't see it as any huge upgrade from BRT service from a riders perspective (other than higher capacity).

And on the parking issue: I frequented the ebike shop on Chicago many times this summer because of having tech issues with my ebike and then also two self-inflicted episodes of damage to the bike and a flat...I arrived there several week day afternoons and a several Fridays just before 6 pm and had to load and unload my bike off trailer hitch rack - each time I thought I might have to park far but each and every time, I found a parking spot big enough to unload my bike within 1/2 block of the shop. There wern't tons of open spots, most spots taken but still, I was amazed and would have been fine dropping off bike and parking a block or two away.

Last Day to comment on the D Line station at 48th and Chicago

https://www.metrotransit.org/chicago-and-48th

Make your voice heard!

The comments on the 48th and Chicago stop are pretty great: https://www.metrotransit.org/d-line-meetings

Basically, it's a ton of people saying there should be a stop here, a few saying maybe it could be in a slightly different spot (don't think those suggests really work), a handful of business owners making pretty stupid complaints and like 2-3 "what about parkings." Good job, people.

The comments on the 48th and Chicago stop are pretty great: https://www.metrotransit.org/d-line-meetings

Basically, it's a ton of people saying there should be a stop here, a few saying maybe it could be in a slightly different spot (don't think those suggests really work), a handful of business owners making pretty stupid complaints and like 2-3 "what about parkings." Good job, people.

*Throws confetti in the air*

This is great. Pretty much supports my theory that a few vocal opposers are drowning out the overwhelming support online. Everybody I've had conversations with in the neighborhood supports it.

Wow, so it's true... every time a bus stops a business owner cringes?

Every time a customer uses transit, walks, or bikes ... the business owner wishes the customer had parking.

The decision has been to made to keep the proposed stops at 48th & Chicago on the southwest and northeast corners. There will be no stop in front of HealthPartners, as some had suggested.

https://www.metrotransit.org/d-line-station-plan