E Line Arterial BRT

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
Multimodal
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Re: E Line ABRT

Postby Multimodal » November 29th, 2018, 2:38 pm

tmart wrote:One thing that concerns me about some of these extensions (and that I like about the Excelsior-France alignment that sadly isn't being considered) is that it diverges from the good route design that the other aBRT routes have prioritized. …

If someone asks you where the A Line runs, you'd tell them it mostly goes along Snelling and then a bit along 46th. Easy!

The E Line could end up running down 4th/University, down Hennepin, along 36th, down Calhoun Parkway, down Sheridan, onto 44th, then Xerxes, then 50th, then down France, and finally onto 66th to do a lap around Southdale.
Well, it’s really the University/Hennepin/France [or Xerxes] line, but Hennepin, Xerxes, & France all dead-end, so there’s a little jog in the middle.

No one cares that it goes on 36th or Sheridan. The jog is mostly just Upton & 44th to get to that node which developed because it was on an original streetcar line that snaked around the lakes. And that original streetcar line isn’t too far off the Green Line & extension; it went from Como Park to Excelsior via Hopkins.

xandrex
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Re: E Line ABRT

Postby xandrex » November 29th, 2018, 2:50 pm

I think corridors are important, but geometry of the area thanks to the lakes means you've gotta sacrifice that to a certain extent. And really, the benefit of aBRT in making things less confusing isn't that it runs on one street...it's that you don't need to worry about branches at all. That it makes a few jogs in places isn't really an issue for the average person, and doing so increases utility.

BBMplsMN
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Re: E Line ABRT

Postby BBMplsMN » November 29th, 2018, 3:22 pm

MNdible wrote:
November 29th, 2018, 2:29 pm
But why wouldn't you just make the 601 an extension of the Option 7 routing?
They do let you add comments on the survey. FWIW, when asked to pick your preferred route, I chose option 5, but added that I would prefer option 7 if it continued down France all the way to Southdale.

EOst
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Re: E Line ABRT

Postby EOst » November 29th, 2018, 5:58 pm

I'm surprised no one here loves option 4. I'm not that bothered by the extra turns.

Multimodal
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Multimodal » December 10th, 2018, 6:56 pm

I went to the first public meeting today.

They chose the current options mostly because ridership is low on other routes (39th St.; Wooddale Ave.; south of Southdale) and they are looking to hit the bigger nodes & job centers (Linden Hills, 44th and 50th & France, the hospital, the length of Xerxes).

It seemed that the hardest choice is France vs Xerxes. France has more nodes and the hospital; Xerxes has more residential density and more shops/jobs distributed along its route rather than bunched up in nodes.

And that is what seems to go against the idea of BRT—France has nicely spaced, distinct nodes that are denser, whereas Xerxes is more spread out along its length, making it harder to choose BRT stops and convince people to walk longer to their destinations.

That’s my take, anyway.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Silophant » December 10th, 2018, 8:33 pm

Yeah, aBRT seems to work better with France's built form than Xerxes.

Did they talk about the extension through Marcy-Holmes at all, or was this just focused on the southern routing?

Multimodal
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Multimodal » December 10th, 2018, 8:59 pm

All the optional routes, north and south, were on the presentation boards, but since the meeting was at Pershing Park, towards the south end of the line, most people were more interested in talking about the south end.

alexschief
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby alexschief » December 11th, 2018, 8:44 am

I think the discussion on the last page understood the route issues pretty well. France vs Xerxes is a close call and I go back and forth on it. Either way, the current #6 bus should be redesigned to cover whichever street does not get aBRT.

The northern extension is a no-brainer.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby twincitizen » December 11th, 2018, 8:59 pm

Route 6’s many branches on the south end present a challenge that no previous aBRT has had to face. You want to pick an E Line route that doesn’t duplicate the remaining branches of the reduced local route 6 too much. It’s as much a question of where the E Line goes as which local branches remain.

I agree that France does seem better suited to the nodal service that aBRT provides, and Xerxes better suited to local service.

mattaudio
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby mattaudio » December 12th, 2018, 9:42 am

Route 6 has a special place in my heart as it was the first city bus I ever took! Probably around 1990 when I was a numTOT, my mom and I walked from my grandma's house to Stop 6216 at 54th and Xerxes then took the bus to Southdale. It was one of those old red buses with the parallelogram windows. No AC on a hot day. What a precious childhood memory.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby mattaudio » December 12th, 2018, 11:00 am

I wonder what kind of local bus restructuring we'll see as SWLRT moves closer to completion. Do we expect to see changes with the 12, 17, 19, 25 etc? Do we expect the 21 or 23 to get extended to West Lake? This seems highly relevant to E Line planning and the alternatives for Xerxes and Wooddale branches of the 6. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1w-qPc ... sp=sharing

France absolutely seems like the right place for the E Line, since everyone is spot on with how it's already set up with higher intensity nodes. A few ideas to compliment it:

Keep the local route (currently the main 6 branch) on Xerxes, then run it up France *west of* Bde Maka Ska to West Lake Station (quick transfers to Downtown and the University via Green Line). This local route could then extend east to Uptown and beyond, complimenting the 12 or 17 downtown, or even interlining with the 23 across town.

Likewise, a Wooddale route could run north through Excelsior and Grand, Beltline or Wooddale station, and even up to West End before tying in with the 25 into Minneapolis.

Finally, the 515 could be extended west from Southdale and then north on 100 to catch Grandview, Excelsior, and then a Green Line connection. This route would make a good first ring arc from the Blue Line to the Green Line via Downtown Richfield, Southdale, Grandview, and Excelsior. Could eventually be extended up 100 via West End back to the Blue Line in Downtown Robbinsdale should Bottineau ever happen.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Silophant » December 12th, 2018, 11:11 am

I've gotta imagine that the 21, 23, and any other routes that currently end in Uptown will get extended to West Lake - too much bang for the buck not to.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Multimodal » December 12th, 2018, 12:38 pm

Mattaudio, I like your thoughts about north-south connectivity in the Mpls/SLP/Edina corner.

One tweak: the thought of a bus running through the heart of the Country Club neighborhood seems questionable, not to mention there’s no destinations. So what if the line went north on Wooddale from Valley View, but west on 50th, then Interlachen to Brookside Ave./Alabama to 36th St. and the Wooddale station? Then west through old downtown SLP to Louisiana, up to Cedar Lake and east to the West End? This would connect the Southdale area on a westward route to SWLRT, while also hitting nodes in Edina & SLP, including the Grandview node and Excelsior Blvd at Alabama (a small commercial node).

Ohiosotan
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Ohiosotan » December 14th, 2018, 3:51 pm

I just hope that they trim some stops on the 6 in the meantime so that it's at least a bit quicker to reach Linden Hills from Downtown.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby twincitizen » December 14th, 2018, 5:56 pm

It’s bonkers that Linden Hills has no limited stop or express service to downtown, considering the lengthy trip time on the 6 today. There is the 146, but that’s way down on 50th St, well outside of walking range from Linden Hills ‘Village’. The lack of highways in this part of the city, combined with the lakes breaking up the street grid, doesn’t really leave any good alternatives for transit between this area and downtown.

The E Line will obviously speed things up a bit, but it’s still going to be a long ride with a bunch of unavoidable turns just to get onto Hennepin. In addition to the E Line, I hope Metro Transit is also looking at ways to better connect this general area to SWLRT. I’d be interested in comparing trip times from LH to Hennepin/7th between a one-seat E Line ride vs. a bus trip/transfer to West Lake Station (or driving to the new P&R at Beltline Station). SWLRT offers a traffic-free speed advantage that the E Line could never match - the question is how quickly can you shuttle ppl to the nearest train station from LH. One of those improvements is the proposed local route 601 that would serve France Ave up to West Lake Station. Still doesn’t hit LH Village, but provides another option for those within walking distance of France

Multimodal
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Multimodal » December 14th, 2018, 8:25 pm

On the other hand, if the Southdale area turns into a “third downtown”, Linden Hill-ers will be perfectly positioned to have household members work either there or in downtown Mpls.

Or Musk’s The Boring Company builds a tunnel under the lakes, connecting Linden Hills to downtown directly.

I can dream.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby mamundsen » January 11th, 2019, 10:24 am

I wonder what this means for the E Line?

Also, the Future Projects page towards the end mentions a new limited stop service to Maplewood Mall. Kinda looks like the route 54 extension to me. Right?

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Tcmetro » January 11th, 2019, 12:58 pm

I think they mean adding TSP (transit priority at traffic lights) to the Maplewood Mall branch of the 54.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Bakken2016 » January 11th, 2019, 1:06 pm

mamundsen wrote:
January 11th, 2019, 10:24 am
I wonder what this means for the E Line?

Also, the Future Projects page towards the end mentions a new limited stop service to Maplewood Mall. Kinda looks like the route 54 extension to me. Right?
The city is preventing it currently, but I think it might have to do with the reconstruction of the street in a few years.

tmart
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby tmart » January 11th, 2019, 4:09 pm

For as much praise as the City has rightly gotten for their work on housing, they deserve way more flack for having no spine or direction on transportation. It's astonishing to see them pass a Complete Streets policy and then routinely fail to take even baby steps to prioritize non-SOV users, like a peak-time only bus lane when met with a "very supportive public response" and external grant funding. It's astonishing to see them include complete neighborhoods with access on foot to services as a comp plan goal, and then continue to ban even light retail and services in the vast majority of the city.

A Hennepin bus lane is the bare minimum they could do in service of their stated priorities.


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