Green Line LRT

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
fehler
Rice Park
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Joined: July 30th, 2012, 8:33 am

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby fehler » July 16th, 2014, 9:48 am

Rode the Green Line Sunday (and didn't know we could take a free, self-guided tour of the Capital under construction on a Sunday afternoon until we tried the doors to see if they were open). Passed the Witches Tower, but didn't get off after seeing the line to climb.

Got off at the West Bank station and tried to walk to the Ceder-Riverside station for our ride home. I doubt there is much call for it, but there could be better way-finding for pedestrians on Washington Ave to find the Ceder-Riverside station.

EOst
Capella Tower
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby EOst » July 16th, 2014, 9:58 am

fehler wrote:I doubt there is much call for it, but there could be better way-finding for pedestrians on Washington Ave to find the Ceder-Riverside station.
Or even at the Cedar/Riverside intersection. Until the first time I walked from the C-R station into the neighborhood proper, I only had the vaguest idea that there even was a light rail stop there. Even a little sign with an arrow for METRO would do a lot.

ProspectPete
Union Depot
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby ProspectPete » July 16th, 2014, 10:08 am

Joe Soucheray actually said a few positive, albeit sarcastic remarks about his ride on the green line in today's Pioneerpress.

exiled_antipodean
Landmark Center
Posts: 277
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby exiled_antipodean » July 16th, 2014, 7:17 pm

EOst wrote:
fehler wrote:I doubt there is much call for it, but there could be better way-finding for pedestrians on Washington Ave to find the Ceder-Riverside station.
Or even at the Cedar/Riverside intersection. Until the first time I walked from the C-R station into the neighborhood proper, I only had the vaguest idea that there even was a light rail stop there. Even a little sign with an arrow for METRO would do a lot.
Do we even have a Blue Line thread? Anyway, yes, with bells and whistles. Wayfinding from the U & Cedar/Riverside to the station could be so much better. Some foundation has a challenge grant out to do this kind of thing on the Green Line, but I honestly can't think of any station that is as hidden from potential users as C/R. It's a pity. If they had routed the train down Cedar (as was considered in alternatives analysis) the neighborhood would be quite different. Apparently Cedar Ave businesses were opposed because of, wait, wait, parking. I know you're surprised.

Chauncey87
Landmark Center
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Chauncey87 » July 16th, 2014, 8:18 pm

exiled_antipodean wrote:
EOst wrote:
fehler wrote:I doubt there is much call for it, but there could be better way-finding for pedestrians on Washington Ave to find the Ceder-Riverside station.
Or even at the Cedar/Riverside intersection. Until the first time I walked from the C-R station into the neighborhood proper, I only had the vaguest idea that there even was a light rail stop there. Even a little sign with an arrow for METRO would do a lot.
Do we even have a Blue Line thread? Anyway, yes, with bells and whistles. Wayfinding from the U & Cedar/Riverside to the station could be so much better. Some foundation has a challenge grant out to do this kind of thing on the Green Line, but I honestly can't think of any station that is as hidden from potential users as C/R. It's a pity. If they had routed the train down Cedar (as was considered in alternatives analysis) the neighborhood would be quite different. Apparently Cedar Ave businesses were opposed because of, wait, wait, parking. I know you're surprised.
Yes I linked it below

https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=107

I have also been watching the Viking webcam a lot and noticed just about every train heading into downtown stops what seems a couple hundred yards from the intersection going into DTE station. The train is stopped for at least a couple minutes before being stopped again when it reaches the light. Has anybody else noticed this first hand or from watching the webcam?

Silophant
Moderator
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Silophant » July 16th, 2014, 8:43 pm

I think you're talking about the switch where the lines split. I'm not sure why trains often stop for it, even when there's no other trains coming.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby FISHMANPET » July 16th, 2014, 8:48 pm

For part of the switch it looks like trains going into downtown on the blue line share the same track as trains going out of downtown on the green line, I feel like that could complicate things (or maybe not, what do I know).

MinnMonkey
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 156
Joined: July 6th, 2012, 11:31 am

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby MinnMonkey » July 16th, 2014, 8:49 pm

Chauncey87 wrote:
I have also been watching the Viking webcam a lot and noticed just about every train heading into downtown stops what seems a couple hundred yards from the intersection going into DTE station. The train is stopped for at least a couple minutes before being stopped again when it reaches the light. Has anybody else noticed this first hand or from watching the webcam?
I notice this a lot while on the train. The spot where you are seeing the trains stopped are part of the interlocking limits. The train cannot enter the next section of track until the previous train goes past Portland Avenue. Unfortunately the light timings make so the train stops at the light also, thus delaying that train and forcing the following train to also stop prior to DTE.

nate
Landmark Center
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby nate » July 17th, 2014, 8:02 am

Well there seems to have been a big step back this week in signal timing. Yesterday Lexington to Central was 20 minutes for me, then around 20 again in the afternoon. This morning it was 25 minutes. N=3, I know...but damn.

MinnMonkey
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby MinnMonkey » July 17th, 2014, 8:35 am

nate wrote:Well there seems to have been a big step back this week in signal timing. Yesterday Lexington to Central was 20 minutes for me, then around 20 again in the afternoon. This morning it was 25 minutes. N=3, I know...but damn.
I agree I have noticed this too.

mullen
Foshay Tower
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mullen » July 17th, 2014, 8:36 am

the worst is having to wait at stop lights on lesser streets like grotto or pascal. there is no reason this should be happening.

nate
Landmark Center
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby nate » July 17th, 2014, 8:53 am

The second worst is watching your train stop at a light that is still green, because the train phase is ~10s shorter than the car green light. If you sit at the front of the train, you will see this happen all the time.

stp1980
Metrodome
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby stp1980 » July 17th, 2014, 9:04 am

We need to have some kind of performance standard for speed on this line (especially outside of the downtowns). I know it is not necessarily for end to end service but it's utility is diminished by it's very slow speed. This really needs to be considered for future lines especially when the train is playing second fiddle to green turn arrows and low volume streets.

David Greene
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby David Greene » July 17th, 2014, 11:22 pm

nate wrote:The second worst is watching your train stop at a light that is still green, because the train phase is ~10s shorter than the car green light. If you sit at the front of the train, you will see this happen all the time.
Yep, I've experienced that. Frustrating beyond belief.

Maybe related: yesterday morning cars on 5th in St. Paul got a green light just as a westbound Grenn Line train entered the intersection at Cedar. I wonder if the operator was fed up about always stopping for cars and just said, "screw it, I'm going!"

pfreyre
City Center
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Joined: June 2nd, 2012, 2:52 pm

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby pfreyre » July 18th, 2014, 2:26 pm

After 1 month, weekday ridership is already 30,264, while target ridership for 2015 is 27,500. Nice!

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/07/1 ... reen-line/

MinnMonkey
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 156
Joined: July 6th, 2012, 11:31 am

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby MinnMonkey » July 18th, 2014, 2:40 pm

pfreyre wrote:After 1 month, weekday ridership is already 30,264, while target ridership for 2015 is 27,500. Nice!

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/07/1 ... reen-line/
Average weekend ridership is 24,269. Is that per day?

grant1simons2
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby grant1simons2 » July 18th, 2014, 2:43 pm

Doubt it.

lordmoke
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby lordmoke » July 18th, 2014, 2:55 pm

^ "Weekend ridership is also strong, averaging around 24,000 daily riders."

Yep, that's daily.

MinnMonkey
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 156
Joined: July 6th, 2012, 11:31 am

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby MinnMonkey » July 20th, 2014, 8:29 pm

Finally some of the major media outlets are pressing for answers on the signal timing:

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... fic-lights

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 08201.html

I think the pedestrian argument is invalid in St. Paul. I have found it much easier and faster to cross the street in Minneapolis than St. Paul along the Green Line.

Also I think comparing full pre-option on Green Line to the Blue Line is unfair. There are no crossing arms and the trains are running much slower, so it would not cause the same types of backups.

I hope it isn't true, but it is starting to feel like St. Paul wants the line to run slow.

exiled_antipodean
Landmark Center
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby exiled_antipodean » July 20th, 2014, 9:56 pm

THis is a classic case of technocratic capture. I would bet that a majority of the St Paul city council and the mayor want the train to run faster. But the values of the "city engineer" (sounds so neutral) are dictating the decisions, while making it sound like it's just natural the train stops a lot.

It is a technical issue, but the technical people need to be told what to optimize.


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