Green Line LRT

[min-chi-cbus]

Deep down I kind of hope this continues to bother both transit riders and the greater MNDOT, in hopes that they'll consider tunneling under the ground sooner than later -- at least in certain trouble spots (I realize this would still be at least 20 years out).

[David Greene]

It won't bother Mn/DOT as they, "don't do transit."

Even though they do.

F-ing Mn/DOT.

[cowboyjones]

Snelling Ave too. I once was stuck waiting there for two minutes waiting for the traffic light to change before getting to the station. Also with pedestrian and traffic incidents there, it might be better to have an underground station accessible from all corners of the intersection. How much would it cost to do a tunnel like that?

[mulad]

Lots. I've had the thought of sending the cars underground, though, and leaving the train at grade level. The existing intersection could turn into a big plaza space, which I think would be pretty cool. Pretty doubtful that it would be any less expensive/disruptive, though.

[seanrichardryan]

I always figured thru traffic on Snelling could dip under the tracks, leaving local turns and LRT at grade. It would make for odd circulation of the shopping center, but the continuation of Spruce Tree Pl to the east would be helpful.

[mattaudio]

I'm not sure there's space to do a tight interchange sort of setup dropping Snelling below grade unless businesses were taken. But there would definitely be space to drop Snelling below grade if there were no slip lanes or ramps continuing to University. Vehicular access to University could still happen as an "urban grid folded diamond" via Spruce Tree Place and a similar dogleg through a redeveloped Midway Shopping Center. I think this is similar to what Mulad had in mind, but I'm not sure.

Bonus: This would significantly reduce phases and turning conflicts with pedestrians accessing the Green Line via either University or Snelling. It would also allow for plaza space to be created above ground between roughly Spruce Tree Place and Sherburne Ave (where the portals would be). It could be similar to the many circles in DC where the main street drops below grade, but imagine a perpendicular LRT at grade (on University) instead of a big circle. https://goo.gl/maps/PRrB5

Anyone know how to find out turning volumes between University and Snelling? I know how to find that data in Mpls but not St. Paul.

[acs]

What's wrong with simply elevating the station? Besides being ugly? In any case we need to put more pressure on the cities to improve the priority it's still unacceptable IMO.

[mulad]

I've hoped that by doing something to the roadway rather than the LRT that the trains would be able to keep running most of the time. Cars have alternative ways of getting around the area.

[MNdible]

Even so, you'd probably still need to do it one track at a time. Are there crossovers close enough to make this work? Assuming the Snelling station would be closed for the duration.

[Silophant]

Looks like you've got crossovers just east of Raymond station, and midway between Snelling and Hamline stations. I'm not sure, of course, but it looks to me like they'd have to close down Fairview too.

I think the best solution is still full priority (well, one step below emergency vehicles, obviously) for every crossing except Snelling, Lexington, Dale, and Rice. I would think that, if you never have stop to stop anywhere else, it shouldn't be that hard to work the timings out so they rarely have to stop at the big four intersections either. Of course, they can't even work out the timings so that trains can consistently make it through the two stoplights between Nicollet and Hennepin without stopping, so it apparently is that hard.

[mulad]

I don't think the lights in downtown Minneapolis have gained any signal priority since the line started up (they didn't have any beforehand). There may have been some tweaks to sequencing to try and improve things for trains when they do come through (a "green wave" just like for cars), but the bar signals in that downtown have no ability to detect when trains are around (they can in downtown St. Paul, though).

One of my big annoyances near Snelling is that left turns are allowed at Spruce Tree Avenue (Fry Street) and University -- that breaks up the typical 1/4-mile spacing between traffic lights and makes it more likely that trains will get stuck. It also creates an annoying (and possibly dangerous) zig-zag in the pedestrian path connecting to the west end of the westbound platform because the left turn lane gets in the way of a straight path.

[intercomnut]

Yesterday, I saw a Bombardier train on the Green Line. The first car had the old style paint job (didn't realize any of them hadn't been repainted yet) and an updated digital display that wasn't displaying a color. Also someone on the bus was using a portable CD player.

[FISHMANPET]

It's probably gone by now, but there was a Bombadier train at the Cedar shops with the old paint scheme that looked like it had been stripped down. Probably just all the branding decals taken off but maybe other stuff too. There's at least one old beat up Bombadier car I see on the blue line often that looks like the bottom of the car is really corroding away, but it's probably just the paint corroding away.

[twincitizen]

To celebrate the Green Line's 1st birthday this weekend, it will be closed for track maintenance between Target Field and Stadium Village. The Blue Line will be closed between Target Field and Franklin Ave. Service disruptions begin at 7pm tonight through early Monday morning.

http://www.startribune.com/green-and-bl ... 307073471/

[Silophant]

Awkward. I don't know what drives their construction schedule, but this seems like a particularly poor weekend to do it.

[Nick]

Does it seem like they have a lot of downtime in general, for a ten to eleven year old system?

[Silophant]

It feels like it to me, but it also seems like the DT Minneapolis section is bustituted more often the the other 18(?) miles of the system combined, which always affects me, so it's maybe not that bad looking at the whole system.

Why the downtown section would need so much more downtime than the rest of the same Blue Line is a question I would really like an answer to.

[mulad]

There had been a ton of closures while the Blue/Green junction was being put in, so that definitely makes the trend feel worse than it is. I'm sure weekend closures will be more frequent going forward than they had been in the first few years of the Blue Line's existence.

I know skyway maintenance in downtown has been one reason for closures in the past -- Not good to be working in a cherry picker on the outside of a metal structure that sits inches away from a 750-volt wire. Sounds like this is track maintenance, though.

I've noticed the guideway for the tracks in downtown has gotten pretty beaten up over the years. I'm not sure what they're up to this weekend, but it could definitely use some patching, partly to prevent rubber-tired vehicles from snagging on anything if they end up driving onto/across the tracks for any reason.

Oh well, you can a modest discount on some things for Monday through Friday next week: http://www.metrotransit.org/celebrate-green

[VAStationDude]

The official mt Twitter account mentioned something about skyway maintenance. This is the first downtown weekend closure I remember since the green line debuted. 51 for 52 seems pretty dang good to me.

[HiawathaGuy]

As for why they chose this weekend... one would have to believe they look at what events are happening downtown as a major deciding factor. Since the Twins and the Saints are both away this weekend, and there are no major festivals happening - I'd say this is the only weekend in June that worked.

The Twins and Saints both have home games next weekend, with Pride happening the last weekend, then 4th of July weekend.
It's best to schedule maintenance when large event ridership won't be impacted as much.