Green Line LRT

[Viktor Vaughn]

This might be a good opportunity to advocate for full signal priority. It's hard to be critical of a billion dollar investment for being slow, when we deliberately chose to let it wait at red lights.

[EOst]

So far we've established that this train was expensive, that unless public agencies can get everything working perfectly on the first day they're incompetent, and

I've gotten my yearly quota of N-word exposure on this ride.

that black people are scary?

Can we go back to being a progressive and realistic place, or is this the state of discourse here?

[Chava]

This might be a good opportunity to advocate for full signal priority. It's hard to be critical of a billion dollar investment for being slow, when we deliberately chose to let it wait at red lights.

Are there any downsides to giving it full signal priority with possible intentions of replacing the 94 if the green like can get people from downtown to downtown in similar times?

I thought Mulad crunched some numbers showing what the trip might look like with full signal priority/preemption. It was similar to 94?

Why not?

[LRV Op Dude]

I think you might have the terminology wrong. Or are you thinking of the priority that emergency vehicles get? I believe you are thinking of preemption. I know St Paul will not have that. I would like to see preemption on some of the less major intersections. The people you need to complain to is the City of St Paul. They control the bar signals.

[mullen]

crowded trains on a tues night.

[nate]

I think you might have the terminology wrong. Or are you thinking of the priority that emergency vehicles get? I believe you are thinking of preemption. I know St Paul will not have that. I would like to see preemption on some of the less major intersections. The people you need to complain to is the City of St Paul. They control the bar signals.

I think I will; thanks for the suggestion.

I can see how Dale, Snelling, or one of the major intersections could be a tough case to implement full preemption. But my experience has been that it hits red lights at the major intersections upwards of 80% of the time. There's got to be a way to make it at least a 50/50 chance, right?

And the train should rarely if ever stop at streets like Mackubin, Griggs, or even Victoria, Western, and Marion. The car traffic is just too light at those streets to justify slowing down the train that much, IMO.

[LakeCharles]

So far we've established that this train was expensive, that unless public agencies can get everything working perfectly on the first day they're incompetent, and ... that black people are scary?

Can we go back to being a progressive and realistic place, or is this the state of discourse here?

No kidding. You'd think we woke up and University was just a crater in the ground.

[mullen]

well then avoid reading joe soucheray's column today. pretty much what you'd expect. an expensive "toy".

[mattaudio]

How is this a race issue? Vulgarity of any sort, coming from any transit user, is a problem for transit service in our metro. It's not good for ridership if parents are uneasy about bringing their children onto transit because people (of all races and backgrounds) are vulgar and nothing is done about it.

[IllogicalJake]

How is this a race issue? Vulgarity of any sort, coming from any transit user, is a problem for transit service in our metro. It's not good for ridership if parents are uneasy about bringing their children onto transit because people (of all races and backgrounds) are vulgar and nothing is done about it.

I can agree, but I'm not quite sure what can be done about it. We can't have a transit officer on every car of each train to keep the public "quiet." And I've experienced my share of uneasiness from people on the train – loud vulgarities, abusive boyfriend threatening his girlfriend, a man telling an old woman on her way to the airport that she's a sinner and hell was built for her, a fist fight... But what exactly can be done?

[Viktor Vaughn]

I'm not sure of the correct terminology - preemption or priority. What I mean is that when a train comes the cross traffic gets a red light and the train proceeds without stopping.

Is this possible with the technology in place? Wasn't it just a political choice to make the train slow?

[mattaudio]

I can agree, but I'm not quite sure what can be done about it. We can't have a transit officer on every car of each train to keep the public "quiet." .... But what exactly can be done?

I'm not sure either. And I do know what people are talking about on here, with how a large share of the public seems to push veiled racism when talking about urban transit service (they're probably folks who have never taken transit, except for maybe an express bus). I'm glad discourse on here never seems to take that turn.

[twincitizen]

I would like to see preemption on some of the less major intersections. The people you need to complain to is the City of St Paul. They control the bar signals.

Can anyone confirm or deny this? Would it not be Ramsey County, University Avenue being a county road (along with Lex, Dale, Marion, & Rice)? Or does the city's public works department actually control the signals along the length of University?

It's probably not too controversial to say that public works department directors (whether city or county) are generally old white guys who are nearing the end of their careers (and likely live in the suburbs). Of course that type of person is going to be overly concerned with car traffic delays, and less so with LRT performance. I agree with those who say the line should have full pre-emption (Hiawatha style) at the lesser intersections that don't have heavy car traffic. I don't think full pre-emption can happen at Snelling or Dale, etc. You'd have cars backed up to 94, probably causing ripple effects throughout the system (you think the complaints from drivers about crossing Hiawatha are bad...). I'm not sure what can be done about downtown Minneapolis...that stretch is just screwed.

If Metro Transit can consistently hit the 48-minute mark, I think this story will largely go away, despite the earlier advertised 40-41 minutes. If they have to adjust the schedule times upward at the next shift pick, that's not going to look so good and there could be some political pressure for some improvements.

Separate question from signal timing: what's with the super slow speeds east of Stadium Village station and through the junction with the Blue Line near the Vikings Stadium? It seems those could be improved.

[Viktor Vaughn]

How is this a race issue?

Do you really think that word can be used, or someone can complain about overhearing it, without it being a race issue?

[Tom H.]

Separate question from signal timing: what's with the super slow speeds east of Stadium Village station and through the junction with the Blue Line near the Vikings Stadium? It seems those could be improved.

Well, the Blue Line junction has a few switches which obviously have speed limits on them; also, eastbound Green Line trains occupy westbound Blue Line tracks for a short while there, so some care needs to be taken to prevent crashes.

As far as east of Stadium Village - do you mean the 90 degree turn? I would expect the train to be able to go pretty fast along the Campus Connector corridor between SV and Prospect Park.

[EOst]

How is this a race issue? Vulgarity of any sort, coming from any transit user, is a problem for transit service in our metro. It's not good for ridership if parents are uneasy about bringing their children onto transit because people (of all races and backgrounds) are vulgar and nothing is done about it.

Discussions of the use/appropriateness of the n-word are never without racial implications. He didn't say "I got my fill of profanity"; he got his fill of one word from a clearly implied demographic group.

You're right, of course, that it's bad to have people on the train shouting obscenities. But anyone who is surprised to hear it clearly doesn't ride a lot of transit.

I was on a Green Line train on Sunday where there was a busker doing some train songs on a mandolin-banjo. After he left, I heard a lot of older white people complaining about how unconscionable he was, how he was probably a drug addict, etc. We aren't getting those people to be regular users of the train anyway.

[mattaudio]

I'm sure it was discussed long ago, but does anyone recall the reason why the LRT wasn't dropped into the 3rd/4th street trench where it would go underneath 35W? This would have allowed for the connection of the two lines without a conflict (similar to what is planned just west of Target Field Station) thereby reducing signaling and blocking hassles.

[mulad]

The existing setup at for the Blue/Green interlocking is pretty flexible, though it doesn't seem like Metro Transit has been making proper use of that flexibility yet. I've been surprised at how many times the train has gotten stopped just short of 11th Street going eastbound. In fact, it would work fine to sometimes run trains on the "wrong" of the track through the West Bank station, since it's a center-platform layout and there's a single-crossover just east of the station (seems like it would have been better for that one to go the opposite direction of what it currently does, though). There really should be very little delay going through there, aside from going slow through the individual switches/crossovers.

[Edit:] Staying in the trench longer would leave less room for the interlocking area. One of their goals was to have a "pocket track" where an extra train could park and be readied for handling crowds after events, for instance. (One possible explanation for the "Downtown Eas(t)" message we've seen on destination boards.)

[ProspectPete]

I wonder if it woud be possible to give the LRV full preemptions over the "minor" intersections if you will (the Makubins, the Arundels, the Grottos, etc). No joke, the train I was on last night hit almost every one.
It was a 30 minute ride from Westgate to Robert in non rush hour traffic.
I'll use this as an opportuity to respond to the responses to my N word comment. When we were sitting at Dale street for what seemed like forever is when the hemmorage of profanity started to get old. I know it happens on all sorts forms of public transport, but I seriously lost count on how many times this young man fired off that word in his outdoor voice. 30 minutes of inconsideration. I'm going to have to reject Eosts declaration that me being offended by the N word makes me scared of black people. The C-word I find incredibly offensive as well but it doesn't alter my perception of women. Both are offensive words that should be frowned upon.... especially when used in a shared public space.

[twincitizen]

It seems the issue (in general) is actually the use of "outdoor voice" and general rudeness/selfishness, rather than the specific language, no?

Sure, nobody wants their children subjected to vulgar language of any kind (racial or not), but if everyone using public transit could simply use their indoor voices and limit long/loud conversations in general, it doesn't really matter as much what the actual words are.