Green Line LRT

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
IllogicalJake
Target Field
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby IllogicalJake » July 7th, 2014, 1:21 pm

Mdcastle wrote:Can you cite the law? Often the only way to make a left turn on a green ball is to pull into the intersection and wait. But aren't all the intersections with light rail protected mode only anyway?
The law went into effect in 2011. Oddly enough, I still can't find anything official. There are lots of Google results of people talking about it, though. Example: http://www.redwoodfallsgazette.com/arti ... /301139961

Anyone else have better luck? Although I doubt a law like this is ever enforced...
i talk too much. web dev, downtown. admin @ tower.ly

bptenor
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby bptenor » July 7th, 2014, 1:26 pm

This is the closest I could get to finding it: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=169.15

gpete
Union Depot
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby gpete » July 7th, 2014, 1:55 pm

bptenor wrote:This is the closest I could get to finding it: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=169.15
If you read the language, it specifically exempts turns. IIRC, the law was intended to make it easier to ticket people during rush hour who creep into the intersection right when the light turns red and end up blocking cross traffic when the signal changes.

twincitizen
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby twincitizen » July 7th, 2014, 1:59 pm

I kind of want to move all this left turn talk to the "Road Geek Topics" thread. Is that cool with everybody? It really has little to do with the Green Line, since as we established, only allows left turns on green arrows.

MinnMonkey
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby MinnMonkey » July 7th, 2014, 4:10 pm

gpete wrote: If you read the language, it specifically exempts turns. IIRC, the law was intended to make it easier to ticket people during rush hour who creep into the intersection right when the light turns red and end up blocking cross traffic when the signal changes.
I would like to see this enforced more. Relating to the Green Line today going westbound, the train had to stop at Eustis (Hwy 280 off ramp) because of a single car blocking the tracks. The 3rd train car completely blocked Cromwell so that traffic couldn't move either. Signal prioritization was also working giving the train and extended green, thus making it harder to clear the intersection. Overall everyone, cars, trains and busses were delayed at least 5 minutes due to a single car in the intersection. I have no idea how many light cycles it took to get those intersections back to normal.

David Greene
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby David Greene » July 7th, 2014, 7:30 pm

bptenor wrote:This is the closest I could get to finding it: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=169.15
Ah, this is the "don't block the box" legislation. It was all over the news at the time. I couldn't remember it because it has nothing to do with left turns per se, as gpete said.

And I found the piece that directs cars to enter bike lanes when turning:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id ... tat.169.19

(g) Whenever it is necessary for the driver of a motor vehicle to cross a bicycle lane adjacent to the driver's lane of travel to make a turn, the driver shall first signal the movement, then drive the motor vehicle into the bicycle lane prior to making the turn, but only after it is safe to do so. The driver shall then make the turn consistent with any traffic markers, buttons, or signs, yielding the right-of-way to any vehicles or bicycles approaching so close thereto as to constitute an immediate hazard.

I got chewed out by a bus driver when I did this. I told him it was the law but he insisted I was wrong.

HuskyGrad
Landmark Center
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby HuskyGrad » July 8th, 2014, 10:52 am

MetroTransit has staff riding the trains to record delays within the line.

nate
Landmark Center
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby nate » July 10th, 2014, 10:18 am

A few updates on the user experience on the east side of the line:

1) Signal timing is working quite well within DT St Paul. Sometimes there is a short stop right before it goes over I-94, but otherwise the train moves really well from MLK Blvd all the way down to Union Depot.

2) Signal timing along University is still frustratingly hit-or-miss. Although the train makes it through Western, Victoria, and Hamline more regularly, it almost never makes it through Lexington, Dale, or Snelling without stopping. And if it does make it through one of those busy intersections, odds are it will stop at the very next minor intersection: Grotto, Chatsworth, etc.

3) The trains are almost as busy during the times I've ridden midday than at rush hour. And I rode down to the Farmer's Market last Saturday afternoon, and the trains were standing-room only in both directions. Very exciting!

4) The diversity of people that ride the train is great. There is a pretty even mix of professionals and blue collar, old and young, choice riders and transit-dependent, hipsters and families, black, white, Asian, and so forth. It seems to be attracting people from all walks of life. Exciting.

5) There even seem to be some tourists that are taking the train from Minneapolis over to St Paul. I'm starting to see people with city maps and bulky cameras wandering around the CBD area of St Paul with some regularity. That almost never happened before the Green Line started running.

6) The pedestrian dynamic along University Ave is starting to change in interesting ways. The easiest way to cross the street is no longer at a signalized intersection but at the end of a platform, like at Griggs or Oxford Avenue near Lexington. I'll be curious to see if these street corners are the places where the pedestrian-oriented businesses we all want to see (coffee shops, restaurants with patios, dry-cleaners, etc) start to pop up.

7) The streetscaping along University really adds to the pedestrian-friendliness of the street. The rain gardens, planting beds, and additional trees all break down the scale of the space and add color and interest. Hopefully they continue to be well maintained.

8) I've seen pedestrians do some seriously strange and dangerous things in trying to run and catch a train. Fortunately no one has been hit by a train or car yet, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time. I think schedule regularity is the key to avoiding this. If the trains are bunched or if you're unsure if it will take 20 minutes for the next one to show up, then people will be incentivized to take more risks than normal.

9) The few times I've seen the new bus route on Lexington, it's let a decent (10-12) number of people off at the Lexington station. So it appears to be doing some good work as a feeder. Hopefully it finds some success.

EOst
Capella Tower
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby EOst » July 10th, 2014, 10:52 am

I've been impressed by how much foot traffic there is at even some of the lesser stations. The ethnic restaurants at Victoria have got to be seeing some increases in business.

twincitizen
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby twincitizen » July 10th, 2014, 11:31 am

EOst wrote:I've been impressed by how much foot traffic there is at even some of the lesser stations. The ethnic restaurants at Victoria have got to be seeing some increases in business.
Now that is the news article or tv report I can't wait to see. A big ol' helping of crow for every critic.

Silophant
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Silophant » July 10th, 2014, 11:36 am

Nah, they'll just ignore it, and continue to insist that the train is only used by a couple hundred people per day to take (agonizingly slow) trips between Target Field and Union Depot.

IllogicalJake
Target Field
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby IllogicalJake » July 10th, 2014, 12:38 pm

I mostly only ride between Downtown East and Nicollet Mall (It's convenient and lucky to live and work downtown,) and the Green Line is always consistently pretty full both ways, much more than the Blue Line typically is. It's great to see and has definitely added a lot of foot traffic to Downtown East.
i talk too much. web dev, downtown. admin @ tower.ly

twinkess
Rice Park
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby twinkess » July 10th, 2014, 1:53 pm

Green line this morning at around 9am was delayed downtown at Government Plaza station "... as we establish the proper spacing between trains". I don't ride that often, is this happening a lot? The train operator came on the PA system and announced that there were two westbound trains at the Nicollet Mall station and that we had to wait for the tracks to clear. We had three five-minute delays downtown: Gov't Station, the block before Nicollet Mall Station, and then again while we sat at Nicollet Mall station.

IllogicalJake
Target Field
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby IllogicalJake » July 10th, 2014, 2:44 pm

twinkess wrote:Green line this morning at around 9am was delayed downtown at Government Plaza station "... as we establish the proper spacing between trains". I don't ride that often, is this happening a lot? The train operator came on the PA system and announced that there were two westbound trains at the Nicollet Mall station and that we had to wait for the tracks to clear. We had three five-minute delays downtown: Gov't Station, the block before Nicollet Mall Station, and then again while we sat at Nicollet Mall station.
I've encountered that with the Blue Line even before the Green Line started testing. I wouldn't say often, though. But I have seen two consecutive Green or Blue line trains at the downtown stations quite a bit, however, sometimes within a minute or two of each other. I'm not sure if it's driver inconsistency that causes them to bunch up or other circumstances...
i talk too much. web dev, downtown. admin @ tower.ly

MinnMonkey
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 156
Joined: July 6th, 2012, 11:31 am

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby MinnMonkey » July 10th, 2014, 3:17 pm

twinkess wrote:Green line this morning at around 9am was delayed downtown at Government Plaza station "... as we establish the proper spacing between trains". I don't ride that often, is this happening a lot? The train operator came on the PA system and announced that there were two westbound trains at the Nicollet Mall station and that we had to wait for the tracks to clear. We had three five-minute delays downtown: Gov't Station, the block before Nicollet Mall Station, and then again while we sat at Nicollet Mall station.
I have seen this quite a bit westbound. I think the Green Line trains are getting into downtown Minneapolis 5 minutes earlier than they are scheduled too, which happens to be the same time the Blue Line trains enter downtown. I am thinking at the next schedule change, this will get resolved.

ProspectPete
Union Depot
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby ProspectPete » July 10th, 2014, 7:06 pm

Lately most of my rides have seemed like every day there were becoming faster with less stops especially at the secondary intersections. But wow tonight I am heading east and we hit every major one and STOPPED. Not slowed but stopped: Fairview, Snelling, Lexington, Dale, Western, Marion. as well as Pascal Griggs, and a few other secondaries.
This one was worse than week one. I kept thinking that signal timing was improving but now I don't know what to think. Maybe everybody gets a mulligan now and then. Just like Brazils last game.
Also, many people get up when they hear the station announced and we are still on the wrong side of the intersection. I wonder if they could hold the teaser announcement until the train is actually pulling up to the station.

Minneapolisite

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Minneapolisite » July 10th, 2014, 7:06 pm

I just recently noticed that Capitol/Rice Station has a solid collection of commercial buildings that apparently only hold a decent Mexican restaurant and pretty good Vietnamese restaurant (so say the internets) but not much else. This seems to be the only station outside of Downtown that could replicate the commercial density that Raymond Station does. While Rice in general has a reputation for being a rough-around-the-edges blue collar strip (which it is and should be) it doesn't face the negative perception that Payne Ave did til very recently and has an LRT station right next door, which Payne won't for the foreseeable future. Yet Payne already has seen a few new pretty fancy establishments take root, so why not Rice next to the Green Line?

TroyGBiv
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby TroyGBiv » July 10th, 2014, 9:29 pm

Anybody notice how every time that KSTP 5 reports about the green line (or any transit for that matter) they have a negative spin and even when there is a positive report like opening weekend attendance they find one or two negative statements. A lot of it is FAUX NEws style too. "Some people are still not convinced that this is a good investment… Many are still against the SW LRT….". I know that Hubbard's (KSTP owners) are ultra conservative and are vehemently anti tax and anti infrastructure - but seriously - I am a news junky and they are ridiculous.

mulad
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mulad » July 10th, 2014, 9:43 pm

Hmm. At Rice and University itself, I think the only old buildings are the two at 152 and 166 University. Everything else got wiped out due to urban renewal and the desire by remaining businesses and government entities -- blocks upon blocks. The nearest food is White Castle. There is a short 1-block stretch of Rice just to the north with some decent old buildings, which may be what you're thinking of, but beyond that you need to go about half a mile farther north to get into a proper old-fashioned commercial corridor again. Some of the land around there had always been railroad/industrial property, but again a lot of it fell victim to urban renewal and friends.

Three out of the four corners at Rice and University are parking lots, which I typically think bodes well for redevelopment. Unfortunately, these are used by the state government, which is probably not in a huge rush to let go of them. I think one corner is planned to become a new building, but it seems doubtful that it would have restaurants or other retail space. I suspect the southwest corner is leased rather than owned, so maybe something can happen there sooner rather than later.

I'm also a bit hopeful that the I-35E Cayuga project will release a bit of traffic pressure on the immediate area, somewhat reducing the desire people have to use the little Arch-Penn highway (Pennsylvania Avenue). That's a horrible little freeway wannabe. The interchange at Pennsylvania will be closed, but they're creating a new one just a few blocks further north at Cayuga, which basically just curses a new neighborhood with traffic. Would it be possible to close off a chunk of Pennsylvania and develop on that, I wonder?

David Greene
IDS Center
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby David Greene » July 10th, 2014, 10:06 pm

TroyGBiv wrote:I know that Hubbard's (KSTP owners) are ultra conservative and are vehemently anti tax and anti infrastructure - but seriously - I am a news junky and they are ridiculous.
KSTP is our local version of FOX News. The local Fox News here is actually pretty good.

Dave Dahl is a climate change denier, which should tell you everything you need to know.


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