Public Transit News and Current Happenings

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mamundsen
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby mamundsen » April 21st, 2017, 8:18 am

Tcmetro wrote:
April 20th, 2017, 12:45 pm
Met Council saying HF 861 could cause
- elimination of 20 to 70 bus routes
- "thousands" of trips eliminated
- Red line reduced
- Northstar weekend service eliminated
- Transit Link eliminated

https://metrocouncil.org/News-Events/Tr ... e-fel.aspx
I sent my rep an email that this is completely unacceptable. Especially when there is such a large surplus and they are looking to spend Billions on roads.

acs
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby acs » April 21st, 2017, 10:02 am

QuietBlue wrote:
April 21st, 2017, 7:39 am
jebr wrote:
April 20th, 2017, 2:10 pm
It frustrates me to no end. I don't mind having money funnel outstate to some extent, but when they're being vindictive to the core cities and declaring that the flow of money is from outstate to the metro (which, by population, is false) and acting on that rhetoric, I start becoming tempted to push for cuts that impact outstate (eliminating LGA, maybe?) I know that's harmful rhetoric, but if this passes...
If there were enough votes to cut LGA, we wouldn't be in this position in the first place, because we wouldn't be seeing these transit cuts.
There aren't enough votes to cut LGA because Minneapolis and St. Paul also receive millions of it each year, not because the DFL isn't in power. Don't go down this road of trying to stick it to outstate, rural areas and inner cities have a lot more in common than you think.

QuietBlue
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby QuietBlue » April 21st, 2017, 11:12 am

acs wrote:
April 21st, 2017, 10:02 am
There aren't enough votes to cut LGA because Minneapolis and St. Paul also receive millions of it each year, not because the DFL isn't in power. Don't go down this road of trying to stick it to outstate, rural areas and inner cities have a lot more in common than you think.
Fair point. I forget they they receive so much, despite still being net contributors to state revenue. And I definitely do not want to go down the us vs. them road, because it's not helpful.

grrdanko
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby grrdanko » April 21st, 2017, 11:13 am

acs wrote:
April 21st, 2017, 10:02 am
QuietBlue wrote:
April 21st, 2017, 7:39 am
jebr wrote:
April 20th, 2017, 2:10 pm
It frustrates me to no end. I don't mind having money funnel outstate to some extent, but when they're being vindictive to the core cities and declaring that the flow of money is from outstate to the metro (which, by population, is false) and acting on that rhetoric, I start becoming tempted to push for cuts that impact outstate (eliminating LGA, maybe?) I know that's harmful rhetoric, but if this passes...
If there were enough votes to cut LGA, we wouldn't be in this position in the first place, because we wouldn't be seeing these transit cuts.
There aren't enough votes to cut LGA because Minneapolis and St. Paul also receive millions of it each year, not because the DFL isn't in power. Don't go down this road of trying to stick it to outstate, rural areas and inner cities have a lot more in common than you think.
I say cut it and let the world burn. Minneapolis gets 77 million a year from LGA. That's $180 a year per resident give of take. As a city we can handle that. Small rural communities can't function without the metro area subsidizing their existence. They need to learn that if you keep biting the hand that feeds you eventually you stop getting fed. They offer nothing of value to the state other than some commodity production that can easily be obtained elsewhere.

I'm generally of the opinion that we should function as a society and some places will get more help than others and that's fine, but the anti metro sentiment is gaining traction and maybe it needs to hurt a little to get the message across.

David Greene
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby David Greene » April 21st, 2017, 11:41 am

acs wrote:
April 21st, 2017, 10:02 am
There aren't enough votes to cut LGA because Minneapolis and St. Paul also receive millions of it each year, not because the DFL isn't in power. Don't go down this road of trying to stick it to outstate, rural areas and inner cities have a lot more in common than you think.
Ah, but you're forgetting that without LGA, presumably all local sales tax revenue would revert back to the local entity implementing the tax (i.e. cities). Minneapolis would come out way ahead. St. Paul would come out a bit behind.

I'll bet if it were actually put to a vote, it would be the rural interests voting it down. But it's not going to be put to a vote because neither caucus wants to squeeze their rural members that way. And LGA, properly implemented, is actually a good policy because of exactly what you say. We're one state in this together. It's the same reasoning behind the Met Council.

MNdible
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby MNdible » April 21st, 2017, 11:47 am

David Greene wrote:
April 21st, 2017, 11:41 am
Ah, but you're forgetting that without LGA, presumably all local sales tax revenue would revert back to the local entity implementing the tax (i.e. cities).
That's a pretty massive presumption that's almost certainly not true. Regardless of what deals were cut back in the day regarding LGA and local sales tax, pulling out sales tax would gut the state budget.

David Greene
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby David Greene » April 21st, 2017, 11:54 am

True. Which is one of the reasons I said that LGA is generally good policy. Pooling resources is a good idea. No way elimination of LGA would pass without at least some sales tax reverting to local entities. The argument would be over who gets what.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 21st, 2017, 11:57 am

Is it actually true that if LGA went away, so too would sales tax just be reverted to cities? The general state sales & use tax generated in 2014 was $5.4bn, and total LGA for that year was only $507m. It's easy to say they would just revert that money back to the cities that generated it, but I'm not sure it would happen, or in what amount. Sales taxes go to the general fund to pay for all sorts of things (education, transit ops support, you name it). I'm not even 100% sure that the claim that Minneapolis proper puts in more than it gets back. I believe it to be true, and it's certainly true for Hennepin County, but we all make the claim that Minneapolis is a net contributor and, I dunno. The state does throw a lot of LGA, school dollars per capita, transit capital and operating dollars (not included in that tweeted calculation - the report omits transit dollars), health/human services, that are (very likely) much higher per capita in Minneapolis than in Hennepin County at large. Even with all that, my gut says Minneapolis contributes more to the state than it gets back, but I really have never seen the calculation that proves it.

David Greene
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby David Greene » April 21st, 2017, 12:03 pm

As far as net contribution goes, isn't it just a matter of looking at state receipts from each city vs. LGA outflows? I think I've seen that chart before.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 21st, 2017, 12:13 pm

Yeah, if you ignore all the other money the state sends to Minneapolis for specific programs. And, I don't think I've ever seen it, only at a county level.
Last edited by RailBaronYarr on April 21st, 2017, 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

acs
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby acs » April 21st, 2017, 12:14 pm

One thing's for sure our Minneapolis state reps sure as hell don't want to find out if our fuzzy math is correct regarding who comes out ahead. That should tell you a lot right there.

David Greene
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby David Greene » April 21st, 2017, 12:19 pm

RailBaronYarr wrote:
April 21st, 2017, 12:13 pm
Yeah, if you ignore all the other money the state sends to Minneapolis for specific programs. And, I don't think I've ever seen it, only at a county level.
Sure, but if we're restricting ourselves to LGA (which involved sending city sales taxes to the state when the agreement was struck) then clearly Minneapolis is a net contributor to the program. If you're talking about all tax outflows, you have to include all inflows such as income tax, gas tax, etc. I don't know where Minneapolis stands there. Do Hennepin county social services count as outflow to Minneapolis since presumably Minneapolis residents use a larger amount of them? Do we count a percentage proportional to use? It's complicated.

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Tiller
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby Tiller » April 29th, 2017, 11:08 am

I just talked to someone from Bostron's office, and they just heard from Metro transit a week ago that they got some federal grant money to rebuild that maryland/arcade corner and move back the sign. When Ramsey county mill and overlays Maryland with either a 4 or 3 lane layout (depending on the trial results) is when they're going to do it. Then the 54 extension is greenlit.


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