Public Transit News / Current Events (MN only)

[Qhaberl]

I guess numbers are numbers, but i am shocked that the ridership is continuing to fall. Unfortunatly the latest news about ridership wont help the fight for more funding. If the legslature is able to increase transit funding through a sales; Do you think it would still be necessary to increase fares?


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[talindsay]

The last time I paid a fare I was thinking that the current rate seemed expensive when it went in place, but it now seems cheap compared to all other American systems I've used recently. I think a 25¢ increase is certainly in order. Given the large ridership increases of the last few years, I don't think a 3% dip in Q1 is anything to worry about.

[mattaudio]

Also an excellent time to ditch the express fare, and instead move towards charging for parking at Park & Rides.

Barring that, at least make the 94 a Limited Stop (regular fare) instead of Express. It's ridic that a 15-minute ride with zero expensive transit stations and zero parking space provisions on each end would cost more.

[mulad]

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics' inflation calculator, here's what our fares translate to (comparing 2007 to current 2016):

• $1.75 standard base fare -> $2.01
• $2.25 standard peak fare / express base fare -> $2.58
• $3.00 express peak fare / lowest Northstar weekday fare -> $3.45
• $6.00 Northstar weekday fare to Big Lake -> $6.89

...just to give an idea of where fares might go if we just stay fairly steady-state and don't shake up the fare structure.

[David Greene]

If anything we should be reducing fares. In fact transit should be fare-free.

[Silophant]

I wonder what it would do to their revenues to remove peak pricing and simplify down to $2.00 local, $3.00 express. Anecdotally, I see a fair number of people paying for a fare with two $1 bills, so it would be nice to have the fare be an even dollar amount rather than screwing people out of extra money because the buses can't give change. It's probably not as big of a deal on the express buses, so they can maybe go to $3.50 to keep up with inflation. Or $4, I suppose. That would still be cheaper than parking downtown.

Agreed that the 94 should not be charging the express fare. It should really be an extension of the Gold Line, since we're putting BRT platforms on 7th/8th for the C and D lines anyway.

[Qhaberl]

I am curious to see what metro transit find this once they look into what people are using besides transit, excluding personal automobiles. My guess is that they will find more people riding bikes, taking Uber, especially during the winter months. I also think the increased popularity of rideshare such as zip car, Will also cause transit ridership to take a slight dip. In my personal opinion, this is a good thing. I am a huge advocate for mass transit, but I am also a major supporter of giving people freedom of choice, as to how they choose to move around. The more options the better.


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[SamHartmen]

Should LRT be higher?

Local bus flat rate of 2.00 or $2.25
METRO line and METRO number lines (A, C, D,) $2.25 non-rush $2.50 rush.


Although, anybody STILL without a Go To Card... $5.00 and NO free Transfer!

...cause can't you buy a Go To card at the pay stations on the LRT lines already?

[LakeCharles]

I wonder how many people pay the express fare? Most are suburban commutes, correct? And most people who work downtown and take an express bus get a MetroPass and thus are not ever actually paying a fare. So would a price increase or decrease there make much of a difference? Or am I way off base with that?

[twincitizen]

One has to assume that monthly Metropass rates would be raised commensurate with any fare increase.

[Silophant]

Should LRT be higher?

Local bus flat rate of 2.00 or $2.25
METRO line and METRO number lines (A, C, D,) $2.25 non-rush $2.50 rush.

Nah. The seamless transfer between bus and LRT is one of the things our system does really well.

[RailBaronYarr]

If anything we should be reducing fares. In fact transit should be fare-free.

There's obviously a strong case for this (from both an operational and equity standpoint), but man I don't think we should just be calling it a fact. I do think it's one of the biggest sticking points that local travel on buses not only costs users money, but we actually charge for different levels of service at different times of day, and that transit fares have been increased with much more regularity across the country than state or federal gas taxes ... all the while the idea of tolling or increasing gas taxes or anything else to charge drivers for their costs is totally third rail.

Anyway, there's almost no chance the Met Council could afford to make fares free given funding constraints, especially with the GOP actively pushing to put a 5-year plan to improve farebox recovery rates and potentially witholding (or reducing in real terms) general operating dollars beyond the MVST & CTIB allocations. Again, it'd be really great if the City of Minneapolis and St Paul chose to find a way to reduce the impact of any potential far increase/change. Free pre-loaded GoTo Cards for residents, an additional amount on top of any GoTo card for anyone with a Mpls address, broader fare-free zones downtown. Anything.

[FISHMANPET]

As much as the technocrat in me loves the idea of getting people to stop using cash, there's a huge equity argument against it.

We should really make it easier to to buy and refill GoTo cards though, because it's cheaper to buy ahead of time than pay cash on the bus.

[HiawathaGuy]

Free pre-loaded GoTo Cards for residents, an additional amount on top of any GoTo card for anyone with a Mpls address, broader fare-free zones downtown. Anything.

I wish we had more big-picture thinking like this... I don't mind paying my fair share. But to your point - too often real costs aren't increased for the vast majority of people who use the roads/highways they use - because they're third rail topics.

There should be a way to increase the monetary benefits for those who are choosing to live nearer their work or the urban core. I like the benefits I have from living closer - but it annoys me that those who don't, want to share in the same benefits, but don't pay the real cost, because the politics don't/won't allow it. I hope things change dramatically at the capital again this November.

[jebr]

LRT and local buses should be the same price (and transfers should be across both buses and LRT/METRO lines.) Seamless transfers allow people to pick (generally) the most logical route. Since our current LRT routes are functionally equivalent to limited stop bus routes, I don't see a reason why we should disincentivize people to use a more efficient mode of transportation (my understanding is that LRT is more efficient than buses at the capacity that the LRT carries.)

[FISHMANPET]

I think you could make a case that on average, LRT riders have a higher ability to pay than bus riders, but there's plenty of poor people riding the train that would be hurt by higher fares and forced onto services that are less effective and more expensive to provide (I could easily see people taking the blue line through South Minneapolis to switch to the 22 instead).

There's probably a better more equitable way to squeeze more blood from that stone. Charging for parking would be a pretty good one.

[DanPatchToget]

Would a fare-zoning system potentially work? I'm thinking zone 1 will have the lowest fares and consist of Minneapolis, St. Paul, inner ring, and second-ring suburbs, and zone 2 would be a little more expensive and consist of communities outside second-ring suburbs (Lakeville, Maple Grove, Mound, Bethel etc.*).

*not sure if these are second-ring or third-ring suburbs so I'm just guessing

[FISHMANPET]

Fare zones are generally bad because that make it more confusing to pay for your ride, more difficult to actually pay (how does the reader know which fare to charge?), and is generally just confusing.

But we already have a distinct fare zone, the downtown zones. And with a fare zone that extends beyond the first ring suburbs, you eliminate a lot of the equity issues, because there aren't local route services there, it's just express buses into downtowns. So, it's not the worst idea I've ever heard, certainly something interesting to look at.

[Silophant]

Idea: Make every fare $2, across the board. Local buses, METRO lines, express buses, everything except those last Northstar stations. Then, charge a $2-3 parking fee for the park and rides.

Advantages:
-Simplifies the fare structure, so you always know exactly how much to pay, and it's an even dollar amount since the buses don't give change.
-Solves the issue of the 94 charging an express fare despite not having to support expensive parking infrastructure, and the associated issue of the LRTs not charging an express fare despite supporting expensive parking infrastructure.
-Incentivizes getting to your express bus P&R by not driving.

Idk about the existing breakdown between rush and non-rush fares, so maybe it would have to be $2.50 to avoid losing money over the status quo, but the points remain the same.

[jebr]

There aren't a lot of places to make a zone cutoff that won't potentially affect short-haul riders, especially in the south metro. There's a pretty consistent presence of local buses between Metro Transit and MVTA. There is also the Anoka County Traveler buses on the north end that wouldn't have a clear line without affecting some short-haul riders who have to cross a boundary line but aren't traveling any further than someone going from downtown St. Paul to the U on the Green Line.

While the downtown zone does exist, it seems to be more of a nod to a tourist who may want a quick hop across downtown than a fare class that most people would use on a daily basis (especially since it lacks a transfer and there's no monthly pass associated with it.) I'm okay with charging more for express buses that come from the suburbs to downtown (or long-haul suburb to suburb) but I think it's better to keep the distinction between express and local routes and maybe make a few adjustments as to what qualifies as an express route than to try and create zone boundaries and have them be paid for and enforced.