Public Transit News and Current Happenings

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Silophant
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby Silophant » March 15th, 2017, 6:11 am

That would be good. Ridership for the 5 overall has been dropping quickly. And it's got high ridership because of it's length, but there are other routes that are more productive per mile and per in-service hour.
That's true. The 5s number is the most impressive, but if the 10 and the 18 were combined into a similar length route, it would have almost 22,900 riders by that data, and probably more, since it would allow for single-seat rides from one side of downtown to the other.

So, basically, Minneapolis needs to stop screwing around with the streetcar and aBRT that route yesterday.

Qhaberl
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Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby Qhaberl » March 15th, 2017, 6:47 am

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.p ... format=pdf

Anyone who is interested in transit in the Twin Cities should read this. This is a bill currently going through our state legislature. In brief, the goal of this bill is to prohibit the construction of light rail without the explicit permission of the state. I don't think this would ever happen, at least not under Governor Dayton.


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amiller92
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby amiller92 » March 15th, 2017, 8:42 am

Almost useless anecdotal evidence: every time I ride the 5 south from downtown it's pretty full, regardless of time of day (afternoons/evenings).


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RailBaronYarr
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby RailBaronYarr » March 15th, 2017, 9:50 am

I'd like to see the numbers on the 5 from a productivity standpoint. Obviously its high ridership owes to it being a very long route relative to others. But even still.. I did some calculations on which but routes came closest to profitability, and the 5 had higher overall farebox recovery than the 18, 10, and 6, and matched the 21. There are some assumptions built into that calculation that may smooth over the raw riders-per-in service hour differences, but it seems pretty close. But also, when talking a pipe dream like an urban LRT alignment, wouldn't longer routes with major anchors on both ends in addition to downtown in the middle make more sense than a shorter route considering you'll have wider stop spacing?

Also, is the 5 losing riders quickly? Data I have says it was 19,700 in 2014 and then 17,800 in 2015, but both of those are way up from what MT said was basically 15,600 riders/weekday back in 2010 in the aBRT study.

talindsay
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby talindsay » March 15th, 2017, 10:03 am

Also, simply dividing number of passengers by number of miles to come up with a passenger/mile figure may be mathematically solid, but it doesn't take into account the length of passengers' trips. If the 5 has high ridership because it's cobbling together a lot of short rides along its whole length then yes, the high ridership is an expected function of the line being longer: being bisected at any arbitrary point would result in two lines with the same total ridership. But if the 5 has high ridership because people are being hauled long distances on it, then the length of the line is a necessary function of the ridership patterns on it. We assume that there's a distinct north "half" and a distinct "south" half with the downtown being the dividing point, but is that actually true? How many people are riding *through* downtown on the 5?

intercomnut
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby intercomnut » March 15th, 2017, 10:08 am

Also, simply dividing number of passengers by number of miles to come up with a passenger/mile figure may be mathematically solid, but it doesn't take into account the length of passengers' trips. If the 5 has high ridership because it's cobbling together a lot of short rides along its whole length then yes, the high ridership is an expected function of the line being longer: being bisected at any arbitrary point would result in two lines with the same total ridership. But if the 5 has high ridership because people are being hauled long distances on it, then the length of the line is a necessary function of the ridership patterns on it. We assume that there's a distinct north "half" and a distinct "south" half with the downtown being the dividing point, but is that actually true? How many people are riding *through* downtown on the 5?
More useless anecdotal evidence, but when I ride the 5 south from North Minneapolis, there's usually a huge wave of riders leaving the bus at 8th & Hennepin and Nicollet Mall and then a lot of riders who board and replace them.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby RailBaronYarr » March 15th, 2017, 12:27 pm

Now THAT I can help answer.

Image

This is Fall 2014 ridership along the 5 in the northbound direction only. One would assume if you flipped the direction that the ons/offs within a given segment would flip (most people tend to take the same bus and use similar stops in reverse for whatever trip they make). In any case, segment 6 is the the downtown segment of the 5, and while you've got a lot of people getting on and off there, there's a decent amount of people using the bus solely outside of downtown as well. For example, ~1,600 people get on in the NB direction north of downtown vs 2,500 getting on NB within downtown. The only thing this doesn't tell us is how long people at any given segment are traveling - we can guess based on the ratio of ons/offs within each segment what % are taking long trips, but that could be 100% false.

Even still, this tells me the line is probably more on the "ridership is a function of the line's length" than the other way around. Lots of riders using it within the segments on either end of downtown, and the majority of the remainder seem to be getting off downtown as their end destination or transferring to another route. I'd still say that doesn't mean it makes a bad LRT candidate - it's exactly the behavior we see on the Green Line (and what many transit detractors don't understand about how it functions best not as a end-to-end vehicle, but serving many points in between).

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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby LRV Op Dude » March 19th, 2017, 5:04 pm

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