Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

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Vagueperson
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Re: Gold Line (Gateway Corridor BRT)

Postby Vagueperson » August 9th, 2017, 10:03 am

I wonder how much faster the Rush Line will be to get into DT than the 64. The 64 gets a little slow going through Railroad Island and along 7th.

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Tiller
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Re: Gold Line (Gateway Corridor BRT)

Postby Tiller » August 9th, 2017, 12:43 pm

The proposed McKnight bus (77) would help, though it's low priority for implementation. With the Hillcrest golf course being redeveloped at some point in the future, perhaps it can get moved up.

With the 54 extension implemented, I'd like to see the 80 bus take over the 64N branch instead of traveling along white bear ave the whole way, with the entire route 80 bumped up to the 64N's frequency. The 64H branch can be eliminated, with the 64D bus (now called just the 64 bus since there are no branches) traveling south from Phalen Village to the Gold Line instead of going downtown. The 61, instead of being truncated when it hits Maryland, can instead go downtown via the high frequency area currently served by route 64 between Maryland/Arcade, down Payne, to downtown.

I have maps, though I'm on my phone and heading into work so I would have to post them later. I probably did something like that in the NE bus route restructuring map I posted a a couple months back in the fantasy map thread if you want to look.

Vagueperson
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Re: Gold Line (Gateway Corridor BRT)

Postby Vagueperson » August 9th, 2017, 10:02 pm

This one?: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewe ... 98629&z=12

It's quite a bit different than what you're describing here.

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Re: Gold Line (Gateway Corridor) BRT

Postby twincitizen » November 13th, 2017, 2:12 pm

WashCo Commissioner Lisa Weik with an update: http://www.woodburybulletin.com/opinion ... rt-project

I don't think it was announced here, but the Gold Line project is now in the hands of Metro Transit for engineering/construction phase. The project has been assigned to the BRT / Small Starts office, which manages the aBRT program and Orange Line. This is a good thing - that office is full of some of the brightest transit planners in the region. I'm not super sure on the funding scheme for Gold Line, but if submitted to FTA it would be considered "New Starts" due to the project's cost, making it the first "large" project for the BRT / Small Starts office.

Metro Transit has a website up: https://www.metrotransit.org/gold-line-project
Project Development 2018-19
Engineering 2020-21
Construction start 2022 (hey 10 years after this thread began)
Operations start 2024 (~2 years after SWLRT, 1 year after BLRT)

Looks like they've built in some pad time even since the new route down Bielenberg Dr was chosen last year. With a route chosen, I'm at a loss for what the 2 years of "project development" is for, and why engineering work cannot occur somewhat simultaneously. I can only conclude that the lengthened timeline is intentional, either to allow Washington County sales tax revenues to build up, or to continue building political support for the project.

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Re: Gold Line (Gateway Corridor) BRT

Postby David Greene » November 13th, 2017, 3:56 pm

2024? Geez, that's a long way out. What's going to change in the interim? This project feels very flimsy in terms of its long-term viability as currently designed.

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Re: Gold Line (Gateway Corridor) BRT

Postby HiawathaGuy » November 13th, 2017, 5:21 pm

David Greene wrote:
November 13th, 2017, 3:56 pm
2024? Geez, that's a long way out. What's going to change in the interim? This project feels very flimsy in terms of its long-term viability as currently designed.
2024 does seem like a ways away, but conversely, 2011 doesn't seem like it was that long ago - so it's all relative I guess. Regardless, hopefully this will stay on schedule, and actually open when planned.

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Re: Gold Line (Gateway Corridor) BRT

Postby Bakken2016 » January 19th, 2018, 3:06 pm

https://metrocouncil.org/News-Events/Tr ... o-tra.aspx

Gold Line receives FTA approval to move into project development phase!

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mamundsen
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Re: Gold Line (Gateway Corridor) BRT

Postby mamundsen » January 22nd, 2018, 10:16 pm

How does snow plowing work on a line like this? If it's a dedicated guideway used only by the bus, is there also a special plow for the guideway?

How does the U plow the campus connector?

I think this would be applicable to the Rush Line too.

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Tiller
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Re: Gold Line (Gateway Corridor) BRT

Postby Tiller » January 23rd, 2018, 1:13 am

I mean, it's basically a road that only buses are allowed on, so any plow *could* do it. I would guess if metro transit already has a preferred model of plow they use, they'd get a few more of those.

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Re: Gold Line (Gateway Corridor) BRT

Postby SkyScraperKid » January 23rd, 2018, 12:04 pm

mamundsen wrote:
January 22nd, 2018, 10:16 pm
How does snow plowing work on a line like this? If it's a dedicated guideway used only by the bus, is there also a special plow for the guideway?

How does the U plow the campus connector?

I think this would be applicable to the Rush Line too.
They should just copy the LRT trains and just put a small plow on the front of the bus. Bike racks would be behind the plow of course. With such frequent service they wouldn't need big plows, just enough to keep the busses running between sending in the big plow trucks if it's a major snow fall. And of course pay the drivers 50% more for doing two jobs! :lol:

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Re: Gold Line (Gateway Corridor) BRT

Postby mamundsen » February 28th, 2018, 9:52 pm

https://www.metrotransit.org/gold-line- ... engagement

Community Members Sought to Help with Gold Line BRT
Community members and business owners have an important opportunity to help guide the development of the METRO Gold Line Bus Rapid Transit (Gold Line) project. When it’s complete, the Gold Line will provide fast, frequent bus service to neighborhoods and businesses in the east metro between Woodbury and downtown Saint Paul. There is no previous experience or educational background required to participate; we are looking for any and all individuals that care about the neighborhood they live or work in.

The project is taking applications for the Community and Business Advisory Committee (CBAC) until March 2, 2018.

People who live, work, or own businesses/property within one-half mile of stations will be given priority, and three people who represent at-large interests will be selected. Meetings are anticipated to occur monthly and will be about two hours in length. The first meeting will likely be in April 2018.

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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby DanPatchToget » March 13th, 2018, 8:45 am

Don't know if anyone else knew this, but plans are for buses to go through Downtown St. Paul during rush hour, and at all other times originate/terminate at Union Depot. I'm wondering if during rush hour buses will still serve Union Depot or will they bypass it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abeWLuIXFfY

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Tcmetro
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby Tcmetro » March 13th, 2018, 9:01 am

Not sure; but it seems silly to have the buses terminate at Union Depot non-peak. They really should run the Gold Line through downtown for other bus connections and just have an on-street stop connection to the Green Line at Central or Union Depot stations.

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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby mattaudio » March 13th, 2018, 9:08 am

This should run two-way on a 5th St bus corridor through downtown, with a 1 block walk to SPUD or an adjacent transfer to the Green Line at Central Station.. Then it can get back on 94 on the west side of downtown and run direct to Minneapolis, at least during rush hours. A one seat ride to Minneapolis could replace the 94 while also increasing ridership on the Gold Line.

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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby twincitizen » March 13th, 2018, 10:51 am

Seconded, though I wouldn't make that extension to Minneapolis until we build HOT lanes between the downtowns.

It makes too much sense to not combine this with the 94, which is why it probably won't happen ;)

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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby tmart » March 13th, 2018, 11:06 am

Don't have time to dig through the planning docs right now, but IIRC inbound Rush Hour buses will stop at SPUD after the downtown corridor.

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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby twincitizen » March 13th, 2018, 11:23 am

Exactly what I mean. Ramsey County is still trying so hard to make SPUD happen they would block an obvious through-routing of Gateway buses to ensure that SPUD gets used.

That said, it probably was a good call to leave Hennepin County and Minneapolis out of the earlier alternatives analysis stuff. There was really no need to make the "planning" side (Gateway Project Office headed by Washington County) worry about anything more than the Woodbury to St. Paul trip, since there would be no stations in Minneapolis (aside from outbound stations at existing bus stops on 6th St, which can easily be upgraded later). But as they get closer to reality, the operations side (Metro Transit) needs to start thinking about if it makes sense to end this route in Downtown St. Paul.

As far as the overall project budget and seeking federal funding, do keep in mind that an extension to Minneapolis would require roughly twice as many new buses to be purchased, and operators to drive those buses, which would make this even less competitive for funding. And as I said in my previous comment, making this go to Minneapolis without HOT lanes on 94 would be a mistake, as it would blow up the schedule reliability.

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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby tmart » March 13th, 2018, 12:01 pm

Yeah, I think that's a reasonable assessment. This is a situation where the funding process actually encourages us to work in phases--compare that to SWLRT, where a lot of us feel like funding guidelines may have forced us into doing the whole thing at once, even though the Hopkins-Downtown segment would have been a natural first phase to open independently.

IMO I think a transit solution for I-94 is its own project entirely. The Green Line has been a huge success, but there's clearly still a huge need for capacity between the downtowns--both in terms of acceptably fast service between them, and offering through-routing for routes inbound from suburbs. Unfortunately I don't see that book getting reopened anytime soon.

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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby jebr » March 13th, 2018, 12:20 pm

It's interesting to see how the video uses the A Line as the "stock footage" for what the corridor may look like instead of the Red Line, since the Red Line was supposed to be "true" BRT and part of the METRO system, like the Gold Line will be, where the A Line is simply arterial BRT. From the video it looks like the Gold Line will do much better in executing BRT levels of service (there'll be actual dedicated transit lanes instead of just bus-only shoulders, as a major example.) The stations also look to be closer to the A Line in terms of amenities and set-up, versus the fully-enclosed nature of the Red Line stations.

(So when can we demote the Red Line to be outside of the METRO system?)

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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby Bakken2016 » March 21st, 2018, 7:32 am

jebr wrote:
March 13th, 2018, 12:20 pm
(So when can we demote the Red Line to be outside of the METRO system?)
I honestly don't think they ever will. BRT comes in all different styles, and with the infrastructure already invested in. It will probably just remain the red headed step child of our METRO system.


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