Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
David Greene
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » September 4th, 2019, 6:22 pm

Can someone explain why the northern bridge over Louisiana had to be demoed? That's where the freight rail will go. Why do any of those bridges need to be touched? The platform is going to be quite a bit south of there.

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relux
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby relux » September 5th, 2019, 7:36 am

David Greene wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 6:22 pm
Can someone explain why the northern bridge over Louisiana had to be demoed? That's where the freight rail will go. Why do any of those bridges need to be touched? The platform is going to be quite a bit south of there.
I don’t know the exact answer to this and have been wondering myself. Maybe it has to do with it needing to be wider or stronger? Or moved slightly?

David Greene
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » September 5th, 2019, 11:22 am

It's a relatively new bridge and it along with the southern bridge should provide plenty of width. AFAICT, it's being rebuilt in the exact same location.

If it's being rebuilt because TCWR didn't maintain it, then the project had better bill them.



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Anondson
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Anondson » September 5th, 2019, 11:30 am

I wonder if it is being rebuilt to add greater distance between the freight rail and the bike trail.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby DanPatchToget » September 5th, 2019, 12:38 pm

Those bridges were built in the mid 1970s. I think CP owned the southern bridge as they inherited it from the Soo Line who inherited it from the Milwaukee Road.

candycaneforestelf
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby candycaneforestelf » September 6th, 2019, 9:14 am

Maybe it's being rebuilt for a higher clearance of the road? It could also be because there are funds for it and replacing it was a concession to get the rail company on board or back on board with the project.

relux
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby relux » September 10th, 2019, 10:42 am

I asked and was told the northern bridge is to be "re-aligned and rebuilt to city requirements" and will stay as the cedar lake trail. The freight rail re-alignment means the bridge to the south will also go. A new bridge will be built there and then to the south of that another bridge for the LRT.

David Greene
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » September 11th, 2019, 6:48 pm

That makes no sense to me.

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Oreos&Milk
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Oreos&Milk » September 11th, 2019, 8:10 pm

makes sense to me, rebuilt trail bridge likely stronger and new rail bridge and new lrt bridge.

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Bakken2016
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Bakken2016 » December 5th, 2019, 10:26 am

[IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201912 ... f6fc2f.png[/IMG]


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SurlyLHT
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby SurlyLHT » December 11th, 2019, 10:07 am

This has officially hit the 7th Street/55 intersection by the HERC plant. They were evacuating there this morning. The Glenwood closure was inconvenient, this could be much more disruptive. As an aside, be awesome to have a cool mural or wrap on the bridge as it crosses 7th street if it's the type of bridge that'll accomodate that. (It'll also be nice to do the same thing to the 94 aqueduct)

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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby SurlyLHT » December 30th, 2019, 12:22 pm


talindsay
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby talindsay » January 13th, 2020, 3:45 pm

It's striking how much more willing they are to build expensive bridges to grade separate this line out in wealthy suburbia than they were to do the same for the two dense lines running in the core. Imagine how much cleaner the Snelling / University intersection would be if they'd built a tunnel or bridge for the LRT to pass through that intersection.

HuskyGrad
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby HuskyGrad » January 13th, 2020, 5:47 pm

Underway: Construction Progress Overview
Despite it being the middle of the winter with more limited activities, January and February will see work in most segments of the project corridor. Here is an overview of the elements underway:
  • 15 of 29 new bridges are under construction. The Cedar Lake Channel freight bridge and the Louisiana Avenue freight bridge have more than half of the structural elements complete.
  • Four of eight tunnels have elements in the ground. The two LRT tunnels, under Highway 62 and in Kenilworth, have either sheeting or excavation work started.
  • 24 of 130 retaining walls are under construction.
  • Two of the 16 stations are 25% complete, with a total of four stations underway. Structural elements to support the roof canopy on Golden Triangle and Downtown Hopkins Stations will begin late January or early February, depending on weather.
https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation ... ction.aspx

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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Bakken2016 » January 14th, 2020, 8:30 am

talindsay wrote:
January 13th, 2020, 3:45 pm
It's striking how much more willing they are to build expensive bridges to grade separate this line out in wealthy suburbia than they were to do the same for the two dense lines running in the core. Imagine how much cleaner the Snelling / University intersection would be if they'd built a tunnel or bridge for the LRT to pass through that intersection.
The built environment doesn't really allow for at grade routing of SWLRT.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby DanPatchToget » January 14th, 2020, 9:02 am

Bakken2016 wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 8:30 am
talindsay wrote:
January 13th, 2020, 3:45 pm
It's striking how much more willing they are to build expensive bridges to grade separate this line out in wealthy suburbia than they were to do the same for the two dense lines running in the core. Imagine how much cleaner the Snelling / University intersection would be if they'd built a tunnel or bridge for the LRT to pass through that intersection.
The built environment doesn't really allow for at grade routing of SWLRT.
Well, it could've been built at-grade, but that would involve several crossings with busy roads that have high speed traffic. Combined with impatient suburban motorists it probably wouldn't go well.

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Nick
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Nick » January 14th, 2020, 9:23 am


BoredAgain
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby BoredAgain » January 14th, 2020, 9:59 am

DanPatchToget wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 9:02 am
Bakken2016 wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 8:30 am
talindsay wrote:
January 13th, 2020, 3:45 pm
It's striking how much more willing they are to build expensive bridges to grade separate this line out in wealthy suburbia than they were to do the same for the two dense lines running in the core. Imagine how much cleaner the Snelling / University intersection would be if they'd built a tunnel or bridge for the LRT to pass through that intersection.
The built environment doesn't really allow for at grade routing of SWLRT.
Well, it could've been built at-grade, but that would involve several crossings with busy roads that have high speed traffic. Combined with impatient suburban motorists it probably wouldn't go well.
Possibly incorrect list of Non-Freeway roads that get grade separated crossings from SWLRT:
1. Technology Drive and Prairie Center Drive
2. Prairie Center Drive (again)
3. Flying Cloud Drive
4, Flying Cloud Drive (again) and Shady Oak Rd
5. Felta Rd & Smetana Rd (in a tunnel)
6. Excelsior Blvd
7. Louisiana Ave
8. 5th Ave and 7th St entering elevated target field station.

This list does not include roads that get grade separated crossings because of grade separation that already exists.

Possibly incorrect list of Non-Freeway roads that got grade separated crossings from existing Green Line:
1. 3rd st and 4th st (the second crossing) downtown.
2. Cedar Ave and 19th Ave for west bank station.
3. Cedar St near the Capitol (may have already been there?)

Based on what we see, it seems clear that our transit authority is MUCH more willing to put in grade separation in suburban areas than they are in urban areas. There are several possible reasons for this (traffic flow expectations, ease of construction, available land, etc.) but it doesn't change the fact that we have failed to grade separate in areas that are crowded and where grade separation would arguably be the most useful for keeping everything moving smoothly.

The list of SWLRT crossing above came from the SWLRT Flyover video.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby DanPatchToget » January 14th, 2020, 10:17 am

BoredAgain wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 9:59 am
DanPatchToget wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 9:02 am
Bakken2016 wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 8:30 am


The built environment doesn't really allow for at grade routing of SWLRT.
Well, it could've been built at-grade, but that would involve several crossings with busy roads that have high speed traffic. Combined with impatient suburban motorists it probably wouldn't go well.
Possibly incorrect list of Non-Freeway roads that get grade separated crossings from SWLRT:
1. Technology Drive and Prairie Center Drive
2. Prairie Center Drive (again)
3. Flying Cloud Drive
4, Flying Cloud Drive (again) and Shady Oak Rd
5. Felta Rd & Smetana Rd (in a tunnel)
6. Excelsior Blvd
7. Louisiana Ave
8. 5th Ave and 7th St entering elevated target field station.

This list does not include roads that get grade separated crossings because of grade separation that already exists.

Possibly incorrect list of Non-Freeway roads that got grade separated crossings from existing Green Line:
1. 3rd st and 4th st (the second crossing) downtown.
2. Cedar Ave and 19th Ave for west bank station.
3. Cedar St near the Capitol (may have already been there?)

Based on what we see, it seems clear that our transit authority is MUCH more willing to put in grade separation in suburban areas than they are in urban areas. There are several possible reasons for this (traffic flow expectations, ease of construction, available land, etc.) but it doesn't change the fact that we have failed to grade separate in areas that are crowded and where grade separation would arguably be the most useful for keeping everything moving smoothly.

The list of SWLRT crossing above came from the SWLRT Flyover video.
It could also be that they wanted easier accessibility to Green Line/Central Corridor stations, and the stations are clearly visible which in theory means attracting development, but I don't know if that's actually the case. While there are several more grade-separated crossings on Southwest LRT all of the stations will be at-grade.

If it were up to me the Central Corridor would've been mostly underground to save us the trouble of collisions plus faster travel time and the ability to run at higher frequencies.

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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Silophant » January 14th, 2020, 11:05 am

My take is more that the CC got uniquely screwed up than that there's a systemic suburban speed bias. If you look at the non-downtown portions of the Blue Line, its pretty similar to SWLRT, except for the godforsaken tail south of the airport. Grade separated for major (>15,000AADT) crossings, full preemption with signal arms at minor crossings.

Basically, CCLRT should have included downtown tunnels at both ends and significant elevated section in the middle, but I don't think previous mistakes should lock us into making the same mistakes in subsequent projects.


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