Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[stock345]

... encouraging me to "Oppose the Billion Dollar Rail Lind" with the typo and all. Also, the comment section totally blew up in their face, as the overwhelming majority were people in favor.

Having the comments blow up in their faces usually means that there's a decent percentage of people who support it. Boom being used in a positive context.

[mullen]

throwback to minnesota in the 90's there. remember that news conference taxpayers league did advocating more SUVs to solve transporation issue. fortunately hiawatha was built despite the tremendous amount of sky is falling rhetoric back then.

[Ubermoose]

At 7:30 tonight there's an open house for the stations proposed in St. Louis park. It's taking place at the SLP Rec Center.
There will also be open houses for the other stations along the route in their cities. Minnetonka/Hopkins next Tuesday 4/23 at the Center for the Arts, Minneapolis May 2 at Bryn Mawr Elemantary, Eden Prairie May 11 at E.P. City Hall.

[Ubermoose]

It was a good open house last night even though the turn out was low due to the weather. I found out something that I hadn't heard about the Louisiana station. There is an alternative route being considered which would bring the line south about 1 1/2 blocks on a spur and would be a lot closer to Methodist Hospital.
They didn't want to discuss the reroute or colocation because the meeting was to focus on the stations, but one person involved in the planning did say that both options are being cosidered and are on an even field right now.

[woofner]

There is an alternative route being considered which would bring the line south about 1 1/2 blocks on a spur and would be a lot closer to Methodist Hospital.

I am sort of shocked by this idea for some reason. It better not limit frequency. Sorry to have a fit here, but there is no point in building this line if it cannot eventually handle extremely high frequencies after the downtown bottleneck is eliminated.

[MNdible]

I'm assuming if this route went forward, it would need to be tied back into the mainline on the west end -- I can't imagine they'd operate the station as a true spur. It would require some additional land acquisition and a couple of additional grade crossings over Oxford Street, which looks to be pretty sleepy.

[Ubermoose]

I'm sorry if I was unclear. The spur is off of the freight line that is present right now. It would not be anything more than a curve in the line of the light rail.

[woofner]

Whew. Panic assuaged. Ubermoose, for future reference, a spur connects with a main track only at one end.

I'm still unclear on how this could be cost-effective. Looking at the Hennepin County Property Info map, it is more clear that the existing (actual spur) track extends to the sharp southward bend in the creek and is adjacent to a large parcel owned by the city of St Louis Park. But still most of the track is privately owned, and although I understand this is a low-rent district, that will still be pricey.

Moreso, the LRT tracks are supposed to parallel the freight rail tracks to the north. Wouldn't this southerly loop require an elevated structure over the freight rail tracks? And I would think that the proximity to Oxford would require that overpass to extend over it as well. And there would have to be two, one for each end of the loop.

Not that I disagree with the idea of trying to get closer to Methodist. I just don't understand how it will be worth it in terms of $$$.

[Ubermoose]

Whew. Panic assuaged. Ubermoose, for future reference, a spur connects with a main track only at one end.
$$$.

Sorry, just using the terminology that was used last night to show the possible changes.
I wish I had a copy of the layout that was used. I can't seem to find a reference to it on their site. The handouts didn't have anything that I could scan in either. There was also a less popular proposal to route along Oxford. I wasn't clear on whether it would run on Oxford or along side..

[twincitizen]

That actually makes a lot of sense if it can be done cost-effectively. Louisiana Station as proposed would basically be a Sam's Club parking lot. Moving the station a few hundred yards to the south would not only put it in closer proximity to the Hospital campus, but really open up a lot of development potential.

At a quick glance, my concern is that the station as proposed would be grade-separated, over Louisiana Ave. The modified location (spur) is currently an at-grade crossing. Either it could get really expensive to re-grade that whole area, or the crossing would have to be at-grade. Even more importantly, isn't the LRT supposed to run on the north side of the freight tracks in this segment? Wouldn't this modification require one or two flyovers/tunnels to cross over the freight line and back?

[Le Sueur]

Assuming the reroute is still in the mix bag of "things we'll figure out later" the area where the existing spur begins could easily be East of where the freight line rejoins the existing railway. This would remove the need for one flyover. Also, it may actually be a way to make the reroute more feasible as well.
Under the current reroute plan the freight line would need to make a 90 degree turn North and climb over the LRT up to the MN&S line. If the LRT were diverted South toward the hospital it would be out of the way for whatever they come up with on the freight line.

And who knows, maybe Park Nicolette [sic] would pay for a fancy elevated station so the Louisiana wouldn't be an issue either.

[helsinki]

"Southwest Light Rail Open Houses Planned"

http://kstp.com/article/stories/s3010381.shtml

[Ubermoose]

If you attend one of these, be prepared to give input. They are really trying to get public opinion for how each of the stations will be used by the people who will be using them.

[twincitizen]

True story: I went to the open house tonight and filled out my nametag as "Matt B: rhymes with 3C", because I'm a juvenile like that.

Also, it was 98% white people over 50, just like Bryn Mawr.

Also 2 fun facts: 21st St is the cheapest station on the line, while Penn is the most expensive. This certainly hurts the chances of 21st getting dropped as a cost-savings measure. Dropping Penn Ave would make sense financially, but would raise equity arguments, due to north Minneapolis bus connections.

[mattaudio]

Won't North Mpls buses connect at Penn or Van White?

[RailBaronYarr]

Or downtown at the Interchange?

[helsinki]

This is disappointing: http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy ... lk-s-cheap

Fund Southwest and provide transit with dedicated revenue. The book Car Country (http://www.amazon.com/Car-Country-Envir ... 0295992158) did a great job of detailing how a dedicated Highway financing scheme resulted in such a full build-out of the Interstate Highway system. The DFL has the opportunity to do the same and de-politicize transit funding.

The "liberals=pro transit, conservatives=anti transit" presumption is both ridiculous and untrue.

Ridiculous: In MN, 70% of the population lives in the Twin Cities. The Twin Cities are about 7% of the land area of MN. The population of MN is therefore highly concentrated in one city. That one city should obviously have a decent public transit system. How this became a partisan issue seems to have more to do with culture and emotion than with the transport needs of the metro.

Untrue: From what I know, the Twin Cities were no transit mecca under Rudy Perpich (or the DFL majorities since then). And I seem to remember Tim Pawlenty signing legislation that funded the Central Corridor and Northstar. The public polling seems overwhelmingly in favor.

In other words, DFL, this is not a politically risky decision. You don't have to fear a voter backlash on this one.

Honestly, I don't think that people are as rabidly ideological about transit as the Strib comments section would lead you to think. Democrats drive and Republicans take the bus. And I think it is safe to say that everyone else who doesn't go through daily life self-identifying with an organized political party (most people, I imagine) uses whatever transportation mode seems most convenient to them at the moment.

[MNdible]

Unfortunately, the sales tax is already too high. I fully support transit spending, but another 3/4% would make us stick out like a sore thumb.

[stp1980]

The movement on transit this year has been disappointing at the Capitol. If I read the last draft of one of the transportation bills correctly it seems that additional funding may come from Scott and Carver being added into CTIB, although a drop in the bucket and they will want some return on that.

[Le Sueur]

Honestly, I don't think that people are as rabidly ideological about transit as the Strib comments section would lead you to think.

Exactly... Which is why it's a low hanging fruit this year. The DFL has two years of control, they're trying to get the "unpopular" things out of the way this year, like raising a taxes, increasing LGA, and funding education.