Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[acs]

I don't think its coincidence that Minneapolis started a streetcar study on west Broadway after the bottineau alignment was chosen. But damn, do I want to know what they are discussing behind closed doors!

[min-chi-cbus]

An LRT through uptown to downtown? Yes, there won't be probably never. But LRT through Midtown, or street car to downtown from uptown? I see it probably accelerates it.

I don't know about that.....in 20/30 years if/when the corridors are fully utilized and congestion becomes simply too much to continue to share the roadways with vehicles and they need to put lines under the ground, a realignment through Uptown then would make plenty of sense. The major impetus then being having to add new stations for that part of the segment.

[mattaudio]

If this goes forward will it pretty much seal the deal on there never being a route through uptown?

That's why I think they should drop the 21st Street station, and single track (at grade) through the Kenilworth corridor. That way it would be an extremely low cost switch to route SWLRT down the Greenway, and route another LRT service from Penn down to the West End, 169, Ridgedale, etc. at some point. And it would save us nine figures right now.

[HuskyGrad]

If this goes forward will it pretty much seal the deal on there never being a route through uptown?

That's why I think they should drop the 21st Street station, and single track (at grade) through the Kenilworth corridor. That way it would be an extremely low cost switch to route SWLRT down the Greenway, and route another LRT service from Penn down to the West End, 169, Ridgedale, etc. at some point. And it would save us nine figures right now.

Single tracking creates a bottle neck. If people are unhappy with the current timing of the Green Line, they definitely wouldn't be happy with the delays when operating outside of ideal conditions. In most cases if single track is used it is at the terminus of a line. However, generally it should be avoided.

[Tcmetro]

SW LRT isn't going to be rerouted once it's in place, I don't believe that it's a politically possible move.

I think the focus of having an urban line should be redirected from the 3C SW LRT option to an entirely new line. If a new line is long enough, the benefits of having a deep bore tunnel can be taken advantage of. The new line could completely disregard the street grid, and could stop in the busiest areas.

[EOst]

Even if someday there is pressure to have a line directly from Uptown to downtown, why would the logical move be to tunnel and reroute the SW? It's already grade-separated for most of its route. It'd be far more cost-effective to look into interlining whatever is built on the Greenway with this, or to tunnel the Hennepin streetcar.

[seanrichardryan]

SHHH, don't ruin the 'thought experiment.'

[illman00]

For the Midtown I feel like if there are minimal stops (I'm thinking 8: West Lake at SWLRT, Hennepin, Lyndale, Nicollet, 4th Ave, Chicago, Bloomington, Hiawatha at blue line) with the grade separation it could be pretty quick. So if you are in in the middle at Nicollet or 4th ave you would go through two stops then get off at the third to connect to downtown which the SWLRT would only have 3 stations to downtown and same with the blue. So if you wanted to avoid taking a car it wouldn't take that much longer.

This has all probably been mentioned but I cant read everything in this massive thread.

[EOst]

If I remember, the study for the Midtown corridor was suggesting a travel time from West Lake to Midtown station of about 12 minutes, with eight new stops (Calhoun Beach, Hennepin, Lyndale, Nicollet, I35, 5th, Chicago, and Bloomington). From Uptown to the SWLRT on that thing would be very quick.

edit: http://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/ ... ow-res.pdf
here, page 28

[twincitizen]

http://www.startribune.com/politics/sta ... /264675971

"Condo group seeks Minneapolis' help on Southwest LRT"

The article never gives an address, but Googling "Calhoun-Isles Condominium Association" comes up with 3141-3151 Dean Court, located on the east side of the Kenilworth corridor. I had assumed it was referring to the townhomes (Cedar Lake Shores, 57 units, built 1984) to the west, but I guess those actually border the freight rail rather than the LRT. Is it safe to assume that the freight tracks will probably move a few feet or inches closer to those townhouses, rather than put back exactly where they are today?

[seanrichardryan]

The picture is an instant classic:

'LRT critics urge Hodges, City Council to delay key vote'
http://www.startribune.com/politics/sta ... BbkGdXt.97

edit- also, note the epic comment stream

[mattaudio]

[Nick]

Sort of like the Germanys calling "NIMBY" on Polland or the Russians calling "NIMBY" on Latvia only on a smaller scale. . . . . Tell me exactly why people in an area have should have less of a voice about what happens where they live than someone who doesn't.

It's like art.

[seanrichardryan]

http://www.startribune.com/politics/sta ... /264675971

"Condo group seeks Minneapolis' help on ...

Updated link/ 404 less
http://m.startribune.com/local/?id=264675971&c=y

[Anondson]

Compromise is coming. North tunnel elimination and savings go to Minneapolis?

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 79271.html

[grant1simons2]

Thank God.

[EOst]

How much would nixing the north tunnel save? Would that be enough for a decent chunk of Nicollet Streetcar?

[Tom H.]

http://www.startribune.com/local/south/266142181.html

One big question for me is: if Mpls and St. Louis Park come to some sort of north tunnel agreement, would the cities who have already approved (Hopkins & Minnetonka) need to take further action? The routing through those cities would likely be unchanged.

[David Greene]

http://www.startribune.com/local/south/266142181.html

One big question for me is: if Mpls and St. Louis Park come to some sort of north tunnel agreement, would the cities who have already approved (Hopkins & Minnetonka) need to take further action? The routing through those cities would likely be unchanged.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=473.3994

Subd. 5.Final design plans.

(a) If the final design plans incorporate a substantial change from the preliminary design plans with respect to location, length, or termini of routes; general dimension, elevation, or alignment of routes and crossings; location of tracks above ground, below ground, or at ground level; or station locations, before beginning construction, the responsible authority shall submit the changed component of the final design plans to the governing body of each statutory and home rule city, county, and town in which the changed component is proposed to be located. Within 60 days after the submission of the plans, the city, county, or town shall review and approve or disapprove the changed component located in the city, county, or town. A local unit of government that disapproves the change shall describe specific amendments to the plans that, if adopted, would cause the local unit to withdraw its disapproval. Failure to approve or disapprove the changed plans in writing within the time period is deemed to be approval, unless an extension is agreed to by the city, county, or town and the responsible authority.

Plans only need to be resubmitted to and approved by the units of government directly affected by the change. That would be Minneapolis and Hennepin County in this case. St. Louis Park postponed its vote because if it had approved it would not have had a chance to withdraw that approval. If SLP ends up denying consent over some ridiculous jealousy about a Minneapolis deal it will be a slap in the face to every other community along the line.

[mullen]

this seems like a reasonable compromise. i like that a new station would be added.