Architecture, Development, and Infrastructure of the Twin Cities
https://urbanmsp.com/
2 billion is still relatively cheap for 14.5 miles of rail, 2nd Ave Subway in NYC is going to cost well over 20 billion for 8.5 miles....Is it, uh, too late to...
1. Eliminate 21st St Station
2. Single track the LRT between West Lake and Penn Ave
3. Not do the shallow tunnel, but instead run a single track of LRT next to a single track of freight
4. Save piles and piles of money?
Comparing at-grade LRT to subway is not a fair comparison at all, even setting aside all the other hurdles to working somewhere as dense and valuable as Manhattan.2 billion is still relatively cheap for 14.5 miles of rail, 2nd Ave Subway in NYC is going to cost well over 20 billion for 8.5 miles....Is it, uh, too late to...
1. Eliminate 21st St Station
2. Single track the LRT between West Lake and Penn Ave
3. Not do the shallow tunnel, but instead run a single track of LRT next to a single track of freight
4. Save piles and piles of money?
I still don't think $2billion is too high, the project has many bridges and a few tunnels. The geography of the area restricts planning and blows up the cost compared to many standard LRT projects that only run down a prominent street(like the Green Line currently)Comparing at-grade LRT to subway is not a fair comparison at all, even setting aside all the other hurdles to working somewhere as dense and valuable as Manhattan.2 billion is still relatively cheap for 14.5 miles of rail, 2nd Ave Subway in NYC is going to cost well over 20 billion for 8.5 miles....Is it, uh, too late to...
1. Eliminate 21st St Station
2. Single track the LRT between West Lake and Penn Ave
3. Not do the shallow tunnel, but instead run a single track of LRT next to a single track of freight
4. Save piles and piles of money?
To answer mattaudio's question, I am curious at what point we were locked into this alignment, and what it would take to change it. I guess we'd have to redo the EIS, be reevaluated for federal funding, and reengineer the section in question. At the very least it would be a few years of delay, and the price of major construction is only climbing right now.
Lots of flyover bridges in Eden Prairie and Minnetonka, and of course a nine figure tunnel in the Kenilworth corridor despite it being a railroad corridor since before the area was developed. Those are bugs, not features.the project has many bridges and a few tunnels.
If we lived in a perfect universe, we wouldn't need transit - because we could all fly. But since we have to live in reality, I'm thankful that something has been planned, albeit clearly not to your liking, than nothing at all - which is exactly what would be the case waiting "until the money is there." There's so much about your post that makes me shake my head, but such is life. Hopefully this will break ground this year, and we can actually see progress on a line extension that will be very successful.Once this line is built it will be the rail line for this slice of the metro for centuries (probably). That means that the urban parts of south west Minneapolis will likely never be served by a Downtown rail line if this project goes through. This line is a mistake of a historic magnitude. It was designed around the political imperatives of spreading transit money to the suburbs, without regard as to whether or where that made sense. To date, the results of our suburban transit improvements have been underwhelming at best, and this one looks no different to me. If we build expensive lines that don't work, it will destroy public support for continued investment in transit. At minimum a southwest line should connect Downtown, Uptown, Excelsior and Grand and Downtown Hopkins. Those are the walkable nodes in the corridor. That is the urbanism we should be building outward from. This line doesn't do that. We shouldn't build a bad line just because it is shovel ready. We should kill it and start from scratch.
I know some people are sick of the routing discussion, but the routing issues are the reason why this line doesn't have the public support a project like this needs to push through the inevitable obstacles. Every rail line we build needs to be done right, we shouldn't half ass it just because it is cheaper. If all we can afford are Dallas style lines through farm fields and unwalkable cul de sacs, then we shouldn't build anything until the money is there.
I agree, even if it's an imperfect connection to the SW Metro a LRT line to this important part of the metro is good for the region.If we lived in a perfect universe, we wouldn't need transit - because we could all fly. But since we have to live in reality, I'm thankful that something has been planned, albeit clearly not to your liking, than nothing at all - which is exactly what would be the case waiting "until the money is there." There's so much about your post that makes me shake my head, but such is life. Hopefully this will break ground this year, and we can actually see progress on a line extension that will be very successful.
I never thought of it this way, it is a great point. I am in the camp of Minneapolis, outside of the CBD, has plenty of surface ROW to make an excellent transit system. People lament the fact that there isn't political will to buy a subway, a more transformative move that would cost almost nothing would be a reconfiguration of Hennepin. Find the political will to do that and make the area better in way less time.Southwest LRT makes a heavily pedestrian/transit focused Hennepin Ave redo more likely.
Yeah, it actually is a really good point. Drive around the lakes at rush hour to see the need for the diagonal route.I never thought of it this way, it is a great point. I am in the camp of Minneapolis, outside of the CBD, has plenty of surface ROW to make an excellent transit system. People lament the fact that there isn't political will to buy a subway, a more transformative move that would cost almost nothing would be a reconfiguration of Hennepin. Find the political will to do that and make the area better in way less time.Southwest LRT makes a heavily pedestrian/transit focused Hennepin Ave redo more likely.