urbanMSP

Frontier Airlines (F9) to begin service to:
Cincinnati (CVG) April 21st
Cleveland (CLE) April 23rd

No Columbus?

Not sure what thread to put this in, but Delta's former CEO was in MSP today and had some interesting thoughts on the future of small airplanes/airports.

Unlocked: http://finance-commerce.com/2017/02/ex- ... -bus-rail/

Basically saying that small planes with small capacity won't work in the future due to fuel costs and that instead of supporting a network of small regional airports we should be investing in a better rural bus and rail network state-wide.

"The idea put Brian Ryks in a delicate position. Ryks is the CEO of the Metropolitan Airports Commission, the entity that owns and operates MSP, as well as six general aviation airports in Blaine, Crystal, Eden Prairie, Lakeville, Lake Elmo and downtown St. Paul."

Interesting to note the above in the article. When I thought of "smaller airports," I imagined Bemidji, St. Cloud, Rochester, which normally see 50-seat regional jets, for example, not the municipal airports which see private plane activity in lieu of commercial service. Any thoughts or context around why this would put the MAC CEO in a delicate position? Not to sidetrack, but what are everyone's thoughts around a more robust light rail network which connects inner/outer suburbs to each other, rather than a funnel to downtowns?

I think the reference to the relievers was kind of a throwaway line. I suspect the real issue for Ryks is twofold:

1. He is the de facto voice for commercial aviation in the entire state, so it's awkward for him to be supporting a plan that would cut service from his peer airports.

2. A significant portion of MSP's connecting traffic is driven by fliers from these "small" airports.

I mean, Eden Prairie is getting SWLRT, Crystal is getting BLRT, Lakeville is getting the Orange Line Extension, Blaine is in line for something that has yet to be studied/determined (though the Central/Northtown corridor is in all the regional plans), and Lake Elmo is pretty close to a couple proposed corridors, and actually rejected the Gold Line. So the areas in question certainly aren't being neglected by transit. Edit: and St Paul has the central corridor and will be a metro hub too.

It also read to me like he was talking about airports in greater Minnesota going away (him being the unofficial face of minnesota's aviation industry, even though he only personally deals with metro airports), and he used an example from his jurisdiction (BLRT) for what could replace them (ie intercity passenger rail in greater minnesota).

Yes, that's my take as well. Which is why the Ryks comment didn't make sense to me either (no other MAC airports have commercial service, so this seems more pointed at MnDOT commercial aviation officials and/or regional airport boosters).

Wasn't the long-term plan in Chicago to route future MWHSR services around the core city with connections at O'Hare? That makes sense at a location that can be both a hub of a rail network and a hub of multiple airlines (Frankfurt is another great example). Other airports are becoming multi-modal hubs with regional heavy rail - BrightLine serving Orlando Airport, Amtrak's new station at Miami Airport, etc.

That said, MSP is a major airline hub but not a major rail network hub like Chicago. Additionally, MSP already has top-shelf local transit access (Blue Line) and is landlocked from existing heavy rail corridors. In general, it makes sense to build robust downtown-serving rail connectivity before serving airports or other transit points (serve the destination before you serve the connection). And that's doubly difficult in MSP, since we have two downtowns with two competing train stations. That's why I've argued in the ZipLine thread that Rochester HSR should serve the downtowns over MSP Airport.

But I think this gets to a bigger issue: Regional rail services across Minnesota can fill the gap as regional airports fail to sustain airline service. STC has lost service twice in the past decade (First MSP on DL then the short-lived ORD attempt on United). Mankato hasn't had service since the 70s or 80s. We could use a comprehensive system of rail services, as Illinois and other states have done under contract with Amtrak and even private operators, allowing people from across the state to get to the MSP metro core, and through transit, MSP Airport.

The line of reasoning that says you don't have enough population to support twice daily service on a 75 seat airplane (because fuel and labor costs are too high) so you should run a diesel trainset instead seem pretty suspect to me.

I think the answer is more likely smaller airlines flying smaller turboprop airplanes.

STC is a bad example, because it's unusually close to MSP -- the ORD service might have worked if they'd stuck with it, and if MN business travelers weren't so loyal to Delta Skymiles. Most of the other regional airports have greater distance working in their favor.

MSP airport rated #1 in a survey by the Airports Council International for North American airports serving 25–40 million.

http://www.startribune.com/msp-airport- ... 415496814/

Not to downplay this, but by my quick math there are only about 8 US airports that would fall into that category.

That's what we call a "baseball statistic". Still, better to be #1 in a baseball statistic than #8.

Sun Country with new, seasonal service to Austin, TX and Sonoma, CA.

https://www.suncountry.com/About/News/2 ... 31357&jb=0

I'm hearing MSP may be getting even more destinations on Alaska Air in the future. They started Seattle in 2008, Portland a year ago, and San Francisco is already scheduled to launch this summer. But we may be in store for more.

I'm hearing MSP may be getting even more destinations on Alaska Air in the future. They started Seattle in 2008, Portland a year ago, and San Francisco is already scheduled to launch this summer. But we may be in store for more.

I would love if Alaska (or anyone else) started nonstop service to Salt Lake, it's one of Delta's largest hubs that doesn't have any competitors for nonstop flights out of MSP.

One time I went to Salt Lake, and it was literally cheapest for me to fly Southwest to Denver (on points), then book a one-way ticket from Denver to Salt Lake for $49 or something. It was so weird.

There was weather through Denver when we were about to land, so we ended up landing in Colorado Springs for fuel. We were 2 hours late or so when the short hop to Denver was complete, and I had booked a high-point-value Southwest one-way from Denver to SLC while on the ground in Colorado Springs, assuming I would miss the Delta flight. Well, we get to DEN and the Delta gate is literally across the hall with that flight just about to board. I was able to cancel my Southwest ticket and fly on my original Delta ticket to Salt Lake. Good times.

San Diego on Alaska. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/alaska-ai ... 00065.html

May not be done with announcements. Found on airliners.net. If this aircraft sits on the ground that long, it wouldn't make sense. Different operators.


"The SAN-MSP flight (Horizon) will be sitting on the ground at MSP arrives at 7:50 p.m. It'll be sitting on the ground for 17 hours? Flights to SFO/PDX operate via SkyWest."

Possible new flights to DAL or somewhere on the east coast.

After looking at airliners.net thread, looks like rumors of east coast flights to DCA / LGA via MSP or potentially other mid-continent cities. I think this could make sense, since they can provide sort of a scissor hub operation for west coast cities with limited or no service to these perimeter-restricted airports in N.Y. and D.C. They can use lower-capacity Embraers, which can make it to MSP / KC / Omaha / etc then to New York, but could not make it much further east of the Mississippi. If the routes do well, they have the larger planes to upgrade. If they don't do well, they can adjust this capacity to other Midwest cities to try and find a fit.

KLM started its AMS service to MSP today.