Saint Paul Union Depot

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Wedgeguy
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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby Wedgeguy » December 10th, 2012, 1:00 pm

It's interesting to note that the people in the pictures appear to be predominantly older and white. Assuming that the picture accurately reflected the group, does that reflect the expected clientele of Union Depot?

I have no idea what the dynamic for bus transit is like in downtown St. Paul, so I'm curious if the large crowd is a reflection on what's to come or if it was more of a nostalgia group?
As one that was there, it was a very diverse crowd. There were alot of older folks that were there because of fond memories of day gone by. Taking a train, picking up a loved one at the station, or like so many of us that are on here,we love to see the trains and/or the station being put back to use. There were families there. I was on the 21 when 2 different family got on the bus with their young children going to go see where the train will stop in the summer.

Lowertown was filled with people, the restraunts that were open had crowds in them for lunch. I think people took advantage of the chance to see what has happened in Lowertown and that many know that the Saint's Stadium will be in that area. I saw it as a big boost for the area as a whole. Lots out walking the Light rail line area too, to see where it went and how much they had done of it. Saturday was great PR for St. Paul.

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Le Sueur
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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby Le Sueur » December 11th, 2012, 2:20 am

Make that spectre000 -- I did bring my camera along, but I haven't posted any pictures yet.
This is what I get for posting late on a Sunday night. Thanks for catching that. And yes, thanks to spectre000 for the pics.

612transplant
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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby 612transplant » December 12th, 2012, 9:56 am

This is a bit off-topic, I guess, but I was just dinking around with google's streetview, and found this (appears to be from old platforms looking west towards downtown?):

http://www.panoramio.com/photo_explorer ... er=3597707

My big question is: what do we need to do to get that sweet bottle cap back???

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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby MNdible » December 12th, 2012, 10:37 am

That is nice. But let's get the Grain Belt sign up and running again first!

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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby aguaman » December 12th, 2012, 12:15 pm

There was a noticeable (very obvious) lack of people on their 20s and 30s at the opening. i found that to be unfortunate and a bit odd considering everything i hear about the younger people being more transit inclined. definitely a lot of silver-haired nostalgia seekers.

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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby mulad » December 12th, 2012, 4:42 pm

Someone put together a timelapse of the depot opening:

[BBvideo 640,360]http://vimeo.com/55421248[/BBvideo]

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trkaiser
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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby trkaiser » December 27th, 2012, 2:05 pm

It was quiet inside today, as I assume it will remain for quite some time, but it was nice to see the restaurant fairly full at least. This place is amazing.

http://tomabouttown.wordpress.com/2012/ ... t-opening/

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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby THERAT » January 14th, 2013, 3:08 pm

WCCO had a piece on Jefferson Lines using the SPUD for the first time...Bus rolls up with MINNEAPOLIS on its display.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/01/1 ... s-service/

Good to see some use. Was there last weekend and had the whole place to myself. Noticed that the track to the AMTRAK platform has yet to be cut to the main CP line. An article that AMTRAK will not move until at least 4th quarter 2013.
http://blogs.twincities.com/cityhallsco ... uns-mndot/

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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby mulad » February 21st, 2013, 8:49 am

Someone I know from a local rail club is apparently on a snail-mail list and gets Ramsey County Regional Rail Authority agendas sent to him. In the February 19 meeting (this past Tuesday), two action items were up to pay for switches/crossovers and related work to connect SPUD up to the Union Pacific and Canadian Pacific rails. Not-to-exceed amounts were a bit over $3.2 million for the UP portion and $3.9 million for the CP portion.

I'm wondering a bit if that cost includes some compensation to the railroads for taking their tracks out of service for a while, but I don't know. I haven't really seen costs for switches before, and it's not entirely clear how many are going in and how much of the cost goes into the signaling system. The action item for the CP portion mentions that the switches will be controlled by DTMF tones (touch tones), presumably over radio. So at least we won't have hand-thrown switches (although I'm on a local railroading mailing list where people keep pushing the idea of completely manual switches, which I don't get -- The incremental cost is probably more than it should be, but passenger services are time-sensitive and I think the infrastructure should be automated as much as possible).

Anyway, RCRRA agendas and minutes in general are here: http://www.co.ramsey.mn.us/rail/current ... inutes.htm

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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby mulad » May 7th, 2013, 4:46 am

Just since I never got around to posting it, the April 2nd RCRRA agenda included an item for a $2.3 million contract with BNSF to do their work related to linking up the depot to mainline tracks. So that rounds out the group of participating railroads -- all three that run through the area.

I haven't heard of any construction activity yet, though it could begin at any time. It will still take a while for it to all get put together. According to yesterday's Passenger Rail Forum, the Empire Builder is finally supposed to start using SPUD sometime in the 4th quarter. The meeting had the first news I'd really heard of Amtrak's contract negotiations to use the depot, though it may still be another 45 days before that gets approved.

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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby Mdcastle » May 9th, 2013, 6:59 am

Are plans in the works to get LRT extended to the Union Depot?

Seems everyone is excited and spending a lot of money on this project for, as far as I can tell, two Amtrak trains a day and a couple of busses.

mattaudio
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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby mattaudio » May 9th, 2013, 7:17 am

The terminus is Union Depot.

Snelbian
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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby Snelbian » May 9th, 2013, 7:27 am

It's also the terminus for the 21, with (by my count) 230 Metro Transit buses a day in or out.

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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby Mdcastle » May 9th, 2013, 9:40 am

I meant extended into Union Depot, not ending in the street out in front of it.

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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby Snelbian » May 9th, 2013, 9:57 am

That seems like a pretty arbitrary distinction.

talindsay
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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby talindsay » May 9th, 2013, 10:03 am

I meant extended into Union Depot, not ending in the street out in front of it.
Frankly, I would be surprised if this ever happened - it's expensive, it adds time to the route, and there's no reason to assume it would either (a) add ridership; or (b) make things easier for current ridership. Since long-haul train/bus riders (Amtrak, Jefferson Lines, Greyhound) will need to go inside to get their tickets anyway, the only thing ending down at the platforms would do is make them walk up an extra flight of stairs to get to the headhouse. Since light rail would have its own platform down there, any transfers to commuter rail or buses would still require going up into the headhouse, then back down, and so again, any gain would be marginal. And besides, it seems unlikely that any commuter rail will be based out of SPUD within the next ten years.

If the system ever actually got *big*, as in, several heavily-used commuter lines and lots of long-haul train and bus traffic, then it would be better to have the light rail up front anyway to better manage crowds and keep space at the deck level open for the services that need it. If you look at big rail stations in the world (New York, Chicago, Paris' Gare du Nord, all of London's stations), the local metro service and the long-haul services are kept distinctly apart, requiring metro users to pass out of the metro system and into the train station to accomplish transfers. Things are more muddled at metro-to-commuter rail junctions, but even there the tendency is for separation (I'm thinking of Caltrain and BART in San Francisco, the Metro and RER in Paris, Metra and the El in Chicago, etc.).

Admittedly I always thought the plan to bring the light rail to the back was a little half-considered, based more on an aspirational desire to make the main deck of SPUD look busy than on the real needs of passenger routing, so I come to it with a bias. But the station out front makes tons more sense from an operational perspective than any convoluted way that's been presented thus far for getting light rail to the train deck.

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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby mattaudio » May 9th, 2013, 10:25 am

I used to think it made so much sense to put the LRT underneath the concourse behind SPUD rather than out front, but my opinion has completely changed after traveling through train stations in cities around the world. There's a huge distinction to be made between how people use transit like LRT and how people use intercity services such as buses or Amtrak. Those services require things like ticket counters, baggage checks, arriving earlier for a timed departure, etc. LRT out front is the same as if you get dropped off by a car or taxi... you walk past these services to get to the intercity transport. LRT out front also connects better with the Lowertown neighborhood. I hope we never route LRT behind SPUD, and instead I hope we end up with so much intercity and regional train service that we need to use that space for heavy rail platforms!

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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby mulad » June 17th, 2013, 8:00 am

The Ramsey County Regional Rail Authority is set to vote tomorrow on $6.7 million in spending on the depot site, for "completion of the parking lot and site improvement additions". This amends the existing contract with Mortenson, and it looks like the work is supposed to be complete by November 15.

Lacking any specific details, I assume this will involve repaving the surface lot along Kellogg Boulevard which extends under US-52. The existing lot is just a huge expanse of asphalt, though modern parking lots tend to have more islands and water retention features. I have no idea what "site improvement additions" means.

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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby Didier » June 17th, 2013, 2:34 pm

Regardless of how much logic it makes sense to terminate outside the SPUD building, the perception most people have is that it seems weird not to go into the brand new terminal.

I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out. On one hand it might end up having no affect whatsoever and people won't think about it, but if the line underperforms or is seen as having taken shortcuts, then the Joe Soucheray-esque opinion makers will jump onto this as a sign of bad planning and foresight and government being oblivious to the obvious.

The old "perception is reality" conundrum.

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Re: Saint Paul Union Depot

Postby MNdible » June 17th, 2013, 2:43 pm

I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out. On one hand it might end up having no affect whatsoever and people won't think about it, but if the line underperforms or is seen as having taken shortcuts, then the Joe Soucheray-esque opinion makers will jump onto this as a sign of bad planning and foresight and government being oblivious to the obvious.
The issue won't be the perception of the Green Line -- it's going to perform like a rock-star. The issue will be the perception of the SPUD itself, which will sit empty most of the day for years to come. And no, it wouldn't have made sense to force the LRT riders who really wanted to go a Lowertown destination other than SPUD to spend another couple minutes on the train as it slowly wound its way down to the back side.


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