Saint Paul Union Depot

[mattaudio]

I took the eastbound EB last month, and it was 9 hours late arriving into Chicago (we arrived at 1:30 AM and were kicked out of Union Station - even folks with trains departing in the morning were kicked out onto the Chicago streets in the middle of the night).... makes me wonder how they still fill up the trains... enough suckers like me must still be willing to hope for reasonable timeliness.

[lordmoke]

The people at Union Station are dickheads. I got kicked out of there in January while trying to figure out a new way home after my Megabus was cancelled during the polar vortex because I wasn't actively waiting for a train. I later entered through a different area in an attempt to purchase tickets, (to avoid encountering the same security personnel) but the next few trains were sold out.

[at40man]

I took the EB into Milwaukee today... 5 hours late.

It appears the new signaling equipment around the Depot is now fully activated.

[commissioner]

Pretty much all the signals (except the ones on the depot tracks) on the west side of the depot have been cut in already, everything on the east side still needs to be cut in (at least judging by the turned signals).

[at40man]

Hmm, I must not've noticed them. I'll be riding the EB back to St Paul tomorrow and will keep me eyes peeled through this area.

After the Green Line starts up, what is next for Union Depot?

[mattaudio]

Well, maybe some more casino buses can consolidate there.

[mulad]

In theory, the "second Empire Builder" (maybe call it the "Twin Cities Hiawatha" or something). MnDOT, WisDOT, and Amtrak have been studying that, but I haven't had a chance to sit in on the (not quite) monthly passenger rail forum meetings at MnDOT for quite a long time. The initial study should really be done by now, but I haven't heard anything.

[mattaudio]

A question about the platforms and tracks at the Depot...There's a third stub track into the station that connects from the west. What would this serve? You'd think a track like that would be a candidate for the terminus of a Chicago service, but it has no connection to the east.

[mulad]

My best guess has been that it's there for switching purposes. It's not a very long track, but it should work to have a locomotive and the 807/808 car staged there (for instance) as the Empire Builder comes in from the west and slap it onto the end of the train pretty quickly. It would also work to use the track on the other side of the platform, but they probably laid things out in order to work alongside Red Rock commuter trains, which would also be running through the area during the morning timeframe when the eastbound Empire Builder is scheduled to be at the station.

But of course, Red Rock is more likely to be a bus service at this point, and I suspect they're still going to have the switching happen at Midway. We'll see.

[mattaudio]

Do Amtrak crews do their own switching in other cities? Seems like they could buy a cheap second hand switcher and stay within Depot trackage to add/remove 807/808 cars. Maybe they'd want to keep a backup contract in place with the MNNR in case they have any problems at St. Paul, but in general it would eliminate the need to stop at Midway.

[David Greene]

Isn't Midway also a fueling point?

[mattaudio]

I don't think I've seen a fuel dispenser at Midway - is the fueling done by truck? Would be just as easy to fuel by truck at SPUD.

[mulad]

Dunno. I'm not sure how it would work to get a truck into SPUD, because of the sharp turns needed to access the train deck area.

[at40man]

How was fueling handled at SPUD back when it was active? I read through the St Paul Union Depot book by John Diers (seriously, everyone here should buy and read that book, quite informative about Union Depot's history!) but never did it mention fueling....

Even with Amtrak coming on May 7th, it still seems like there are kinks that need to be worked out to transfer all the operations over from the Midway. The EB is so often late that every minute of gained efficiency counts.

[mattaudio]

Imagine that we are able to add not only one, but two (or possibly three) trains to Chicago.

Imagine it's something like:
- 808 (existing) departing at 8 AM
- 818 (new) departing at 12 AM
- 828 (new) departing at 4 PM

Then imagine eastbound EB (8+28) shows up more than an hour late. Just hold it, and combine it with the next train (8+28+818). Or if it's 5+ hours late, combine it with the afternoon departure (8+28+828).

This would probably preclude the use of Talgo-style articulated trainsets unless there was a way to just have the two trains coupled end to end (heck, TGVs do this out of Paris, splitting further out of the city). This would also require at least two spots at most intermediate stations, but Amtrak already seems to do that most of the time.

[mulad]

Great Northern had a locomotive roundhouse in the wye just east of the depot, so their locomotives were probably fueled there, at least for routes starting/ending at SPUD. I'm not sure how through-running services worked, but they may have peeled off the locomotives and replaced them with fresh units as people got on/off. Fueling may have happened at/near the Minneapolis Great Northern depot instead.

Trains would typically be sent off to coach yards for the respective railroads at the end of their runs, so a lot of servicing happened off-site from the stations themselves.

[at40man]

I am rolling thru on the westbound EB as we speak, the new signaling equipment east of the Depot is now definitely active.

This will most likely be my chance to say "Good riddance!" to the Midway Amshack.

[Ottergoose]

Brought my 2 and 3.5 year olds to the new Railfan Park at SPUD today; we'll be making many, many more trips there I suspect. It looks like they might have a webcam mounted on a pole there (in addition to a security camera); anyone happen to know if it's live online somewhere now?

[at40man]

I took a stroll through the Depot today. I noticed decent numbers of people boarding both a Greyhound bus and a Megabus. While the weather is quite nice, it got me to wondering: what percentage of people waiting for the bus to arrive actually use the Waiting Room to wait?

I've often seen many people waiting for their bus near the ticketing area, which really wasn't the intended purpose of this space. And while the architecture points to take the escalators up, a sign indicating where the Waiting Room is would probably be quite useful.

[seanrichardryan]

Considering how often the concourse is rented out for private events, that's probably a good idea.