Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
tabletop
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 128
Joined: June 7th, 2012, 3:24 pm

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby tabletop » May 24th, 2013, 3:38 pm

As it appears to me, construction of regional fixed guided transitways in MN are only palatable if done along the pereiphery of our built up areas through well established right-of-ways, Hiawatha, SW, Bottineau the exception ofcourse being Central. But looking back, Central faced a lot of hard history through the neighborhood's it's routed through in St. Paul, lessons from that (I would think) were in the minds of the political leaders and planners associated with Bottineau in choosing a routing other than one that would send a huge infrastructure project smack in the middle of the community (Broadway/Penn).

North Minneapoilis is huge, there isn't going to be one magic be all solve all infrastructure project that will link everyone to everything in the region. I believe it could've been done better in respect to the routing but I also think the Theo-Wirth routing will be great in creating regional connectivism as a whole that will strengthen the Northside. If our culture continues to embrace ideals of new urbanism, there will be plenty of opportunities in the future to expand on the transit system we're currently establishing. Future projects will make even more sense to build in the larger scope when connected to the regional backbone of the Blue and Green lines.

The next step is figuring out a financing mechanism so we can build more than one line at a time to dissolve this competitive nature surrounding importance of one place to another. Lets do Midtown in conjunction with a northiside street car and Bottineau along side South West. That's a disscussion should be louder and forefront in our push to build our transit system. The faster we do it the better!

UptownSport
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 607
Joined: July 23rd, 2012, 12:07 am

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby UptownSport » May 29th, 2013, 3:39 pm

Strib Article:
The proposed Bottineau Transitway could mean jobs and improved access to and from suburbs, officials say.
http://www.startribune.com/local/north/209230361.html

UptownSport
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 607
Joined: July 23rd, 2012, 12:07 am

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby UptownSport » June 11th, 2013, 4:09 pm

Letter published in Strib;
reposted here as it's certainly germain:
UptownSport wrote:Star had a transit letter:
LIGHT RAIL

Dense areas need transit the most

I’m shocked that both proposed light-rail lines take pains to avoid the metro’s densest areas. The Southwest proposal bypasses south Minneapolis, jetting past Uptown on a bicycle trail. The Northwest proposal goes straight west to serve a golf course in the middle of a vast park, avoiding north Minneapolis. Buses to these areas are overloaded. Why are we spending hundreds upon hundreds of millions to build rail bypassing most of our citizens?

THEODORE HARMON, Minneapolis


http://www.startribune.com/opinion/lett ... 48761.html

User avatar
LRV Op Dude
Union Depot
Posts: 324
Joined: July 7th, 2012, 10:30 am
Contact:

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby LRV Op Dude » August 13th, 2013, 7:31 pm

Blog: Old-Twin Cities Transit New-Twin Cities Transit

You Tube: Old, New

AKA: Bus Driver Dude

Tcmetro
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1353
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 8:02 pm
Location: Chicago (ex-Minneapolitan)

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Tcmetro » August 15th, 2013, 12:06 pm

At the last happy hour, kellonathan and I discussed the possibility of extending the Bottineau line up to Anoka. It's a bit of a stretch because it's running through suburban Champlain, but there is plenty of ROW. The biggest problem would be the crossing of the Mississippi, but honestly I think it's an idea with merit.

talindsay
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1553
Joined: September 29th, 2012, 10:41 am

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby talindsay » August 15th, 2013, 12:21 pm

That's a long way to run probably-empty trains on a 10-minute frequency. I can see that Anoka would generate more riders, but given how much more track it would require, I can't imagine it would make sense. St. Louis ran their trains too far on the east side (in hopes of developing an east-side airport by the military base) and now they waste a lot of operational funds running empty trains every ten minutes for ten miles past the last major source of riders. In their case they may be getting military money to offset part of that cost, but in ours it would just be financial burden.

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4602
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby FISHMANPET » August 15th, 2013, 2:56 pm

Anoka would approach regional rail levels of service. Could you have most trains terminate at the normal place, and then every 30 minutes or hour run a train to Anoka? Don't even bother to electrify it, build it to LRT standards but without catenary and just run a DMU up and down the line. You could probably get along with just 2 vehicles. Since it wouldn't interact with the freight network at all you could pretty easily get the FRA waiver that would allow a DMU.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7936
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby mattaudio » August 15th, 2013, 3:09 pm

I always thought the problem with Bottineau was that it wasn't traveling through enough corn fields on its route.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6203
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby twincitizen » August 15th, 2013, 9:23 pm

How many shots of someone hitting a golf ball were in that video?

There is something horribly wrong with LRT planning in Hennepin County.

User avatar
Mdcastle
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 762
Joined: March 23rd, 2013, 8:28 am
Location: Bloomington, MN
Contact:

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Mdcastle » August 15th, 2013, 9:26 pm

Because so many people from Anoka are riding Northstar we need another train up there?

mulad
Moderator
Posts: 2802
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 6:30 pm
Location: Saint Paul
Contact:

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby mulad » August 16th, 2013, 2:04 am

Frequency...

It doesn't get mentioned much, but buses do run to/from Anoka fairly late at night.

Anyway, I still can't help but think that Bottineau should be built more in the vein of a commuter rail line. It should still have dedicated tracks close to Target Field, since the freight line there is shared by almost everybody (2 BNSF lines, Union Pacific, Twin Cities & Western and their Minnesota Prairie Line subsidiary -- maybe even some Canadian Pacific once in a while), but they all branch off by the time you get to Plymouth Avenue.

Tracks exist all the way up to Monticello, and between Monticello and Rogers, the tracks immediately parallel I-94. I have visions of I-94 becoming a parking lot in that area once MN-610 gets completed. The line is very under-utilized on the northern end -- it's only used about once a year to bring stuff to/from the nuclear plant.

Tcmetro
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1353
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 8:02 pm
Location: Chicago (ex-Minneapolitan)

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Tcmetro » October 7th, 2013, 10:48 am

So I was wondering what was up with Bottineau LRT, and did a little research on their website.

It looks like the most optimistic timeline is for an opening in late 2019; however, I feel that 2021 or 2022 is a much more realistic completion date. Apparently the project hasn't been formally submitted to the FTA to enter the Project Development phase. Even though a lot of the work that occurs in that part of project is being worked on right now, they still have to go through the application process. Perhaps they are waiting for the Southwest LRT to begin final engineering or construction beforehand. Also, it seems that the DEIS should be wrapping up at the end of the year, and the public comment period will begin early next year.

Well this is perhaps the wrong place to discuss other lines, it seems that the timelines of other projects could get pushed back. Gateway and Red Rock (which seems like it has the potential to be shelved, IMO) would likely be after Bottineau (so perhaps 2025 or so.) Then there still is the Midtown and Rush Line corridors, which seem to me to be 2025-2030 projects, as well as all of the Highway BRT projects (Red Line Phase 2, Orange Line Phases 1 and 2, and whatever makes it out of the Highway Corridor Transitway Study.) Considering that the CTIB is now paying 30% or so of its funds on operations (last time I checked), there is definitely going to be a huge crunch in the funding available for more lines. I would imagine that by the time the 4-line LRT, 2-line BRT, Gateway, and Northstar are all operational, a majority of CTIB funds will be going to the operations of the transitway system.
http://bottransit.org/faqs.htm

WHAT IS THE PROJECT SCHEDULE?

The timeline for development of the Bottineau Transitway is dependent on a number of factors, including receipt federal funds for construction from the Federal Transit Administration (FTA). Competing with other projects throughout the nation for federal funds, the project falls under the latest surface transportation authorization, Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century (MAP-21). Implementation of MAP-21 is likely to have implications on the Bottineau Transitway’s project development process, but it is currently uncertain what the implications will be as guidance for the new authorization is still being developed. An explanation of the phases within MAP-21 can be found here.

The Bottineau Transitway project has not yet applied for entry into the Project Development phase under MAP-21. Once started, the Project Development phase may take up to 2 years, after which Engineering may take 1-2 years, and Construction an additional 3-4 years to complete. The line could be open for service as soon as late 2019, however this is an optimistic schedule.

Tom H.
Rice Park
Posts: 423
Joined: September 4th, 2012, 5:23 am

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Tom H. » October 7th, 2013, 11:06 am

I think this was always the idea of what the CTIB would be - in the near term, it could bond and put its revenues toward accelerated transitway development, and once this is done, it would transition its revenues into debt service and operations subsidies. However, I think the success of the CTIB has shown that it would be appropriate to bump its sales tax up to 0.75% or 1%, since there is clearly still a public demand for more transit lines. As usual, politics will dictate how this plays out.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6203
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby twincitizen » October 7th, 2013, 2:49 pm

We're getting a little off-topic, but I can't resist...

If Midtown costs less than $250MM it's "Small Starts" and would have a much less rigorous/lengthy planning process. It needs a political backer for sure, and everyone is preoccupied with SWLRT and Nicollet streetcar right now. I'm really glad Metro Transit got to plan that one, rather than the city or county (assuming they do recommend rail in the Greenway). Midtown corridor is going to do more for actual mobility in this city than any of the proposed streetcar lines will.

Gateway seems to be doing really well and is moving along quite quickly. I don't think any issues with SW or Bottineau are going to delay Gateway. East metro leaders are determined to get another line and Gateway seems to have more legs at this point than any other project. Washington County isn't going to sit around paying into CTIB for another decade and not get anything. Gateway is pretty much it for them and they know it. Red Rock is going to be limited to expanded/enhanced express bus service for a long, long time. There is not even demand for all-day BRT in that area and won't be for the considerable future. Washington County is "all in" on Gateway and they're going to get it.

stp1980
Metrodome
Posts: 78
Joined: June 29th, 2012, 8:05 am

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby stp1980 » October 12th, 2013, 7:28 am

You are getting at the central question with all of our transit projects. How do we effectively connect a relatively low density geographically large metro area without going broke and doing it in a fair way.

User avatar
LRV Op Dude
Union Depot
Posts: 324
Joined: July 7th, 2012, 10:30 am
Contact:

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby LRV Op Dude » November 2nd, 2013, 10:10 pm

Found this on the Bottineau Transitway website. It is flyover simulation video of the Bottineau Transitway.
Blog: Old-Twin Cities Transit New-Twin Cities Transit

You Tube: Old, New

AKA: Bus Driver Dude

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6203
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby twincitizen » November 3rd, 2013, 9:12 am

Is that Vizualizer's map that we helped craft on UrbanMSP??

Sure looks like it!!

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7936
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby mattaudio » November 3rd, 2013, 10:41 am

Awesome. Kyril should be proud!

talindsay
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1553
Joined: September 29th, 2012, 10:41 am

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby talindsay » November 4th, 2013, 12:27 pm

Assuming they asked permission, and he granted it, that's great. It's instructive to see the route on an earth map; at the end I was thinking, "why are they ending in a literal field" until it spun to show Target's BP campus is *right there*. Still, population is getting pretty thin by the end of the map. I wonder how many Target employees will actually commute with this; it will be good for getting between the DT and BP locations, but given that midday you could drive it in less time than the train takes and parking is free in BP, I'm a little concerned how much of a trip generator it will be. I suppose North Hennepin Comm Coll will be a bigger trip generator and it's just a stop south.

User avatar
woofner
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1327
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:04 am

Re: Bottineau Corridor (Blue Line Extension)

Postby woofner » November 4th, 2013, 1:06 pm

It seems that the Target North campus will max out at only 7,000 employees, so we better hope there is a healthy rate of LRT commuting there. I guess we can take comfort in the fact that any jobs remaining in the Brookdale area will relocate around there before long (i.e. TOD).
"Who rescued whom!"


Return to “Transportation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest