Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
twincitizen
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby twincitizen » March 10th, 2015, 8:20 am

Well you know what I mean: one lane each direction plus intermittent turn lanes. That's probably why the project office calls it a "2 lane" instead of a "3 lane" option. My bad. It obviously would not be your typical 3 lane "road diet" profile.

Even with the 4-lane option, it's pretty crazy/sad they were able to shave 30 feet off the ROW just by, y'know, actually trying to do their jobs instead of "MAXIMUM EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE" that is all too common in road planning.

mattaudio
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby mattaudio » March 10th, 2015, 8:37 am

#iblamejimgrube

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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby froggie » March 10th, 2015, 11:46 am

#iblamethelegislature
twincitizen wrote:It's pretty safe to say that the projected traffic counts of 20,000 will never happen.
I would not be so convinced to state this. BP has plenty of developable land remaining north of 610, especially along West Broadway. And even with an LRT line, there's plenty of potential for development that would add to existing traffic volumes.

MNdible
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby MNdible » March 10th, 2015, 12:25 pm

Without blaming anybody, it seems like it's in part just a natural design progression. You take a first pass at things and you design it to the standards that you'd like to meet. This might mean lane widths that are bigger than are strictly necessary, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're egregious. It might mean generous landscaped medians, etc.

You get an initial design, and you get pushback because of the amount of private takings that it entails, so you compromise on some things and come up with a design that is not perfect but is perhaps more achievable and still functional.

Is this really that shocking? If you were designing a new two way cycle-track, how wide would you make the lanes? 6'x2 = 12'? And if somebody came back and said that there's really only 8' available, what would you do?

twincitizen
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby twincitizen » March 10th, 2015, 1:23 pm

twincitizen wrote:Will anyone in Brooklyn Park demand a 2-lane profile instead of 4-lane? It's pretty safe to say that the projected traffic counts of 20,000 will never happen. There are other N-S arterials in BP that could serve as relievers should Broadway be constrained to one lane each direction (i.e. 169, Zane). Chances are, with LRT down the middle, some drivers will choose to avoid using Broadway, which is also good. They shouldn't be there if they don't need to be.
The county and the project office plan to recommend a roadway design to the Brooklyn Park City Council by the end of April. Feedback from Thursday’s meeting will be compiled and used to refine the design, Baenen said. Another public meeting is scheduled for 6 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. March 19 at the North Hennepin Community College Center for Business Technology, 7411 85th Ave. N. in Brooklyn Park.
Can anyone find those proposed 2-lane and 4-lane sections? I'd love to give that some scrutiny. Maybe even a streets.mn post.
This meeting should be quite a sight. I think I'm gonna plan on attending. I'm guessing that, unlike some of the SWLRT meetings where people were angry about particular design elements / environmental effects, there will be a larger contingent in BP that are just straight up anti-LRT. It might be beneficial just to have generally pro-LRT people at the meeting, if even just to keep the discussion "on topic" of what to do on Broadway. There's an obvious positive outcome here - as much 2-lane section of road as possible. That goes for ROW impacts, walkability, future development, livability for existing residents, etc. Perhaps it will have to blow up to 4-lane at intersections and whatnot, but if they are even considering a 2-lane profile that means it's feasible in some areas.

mattaudio
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby mattaudio » March 10th, 2015, 1:24 pm

Yeah, I can't imagine any of them will be anti- 5 lane stroad, unfortunately.

Record Machine
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Record Machine » March 13th, 2015, 12:19 pm

So this thing's gonna skip the densest part of the most economically challenged part of the city and cruise through a 126 yr old park? Well done.

*Edit: I see others made similar comments 4 years ago lol.

grant1simons2
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby grant1simons2 » May 28th, 2015, 6:54 pm

Issue 3 of Tracking the Blue Line came out today

http://www.metrocouncil.org/METC/files/ ... 225399.pdf

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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby HiawathaGuy » May 29th, 2015, 8:10 am

grant1simons2 wrote:Issue 3 of Tracking the Blue Line came out today

http://www.metrocouncil.org/METC/files/ ... 225399.pdf
Great updates on this extension. Glad to see they are reducing the overall width of ROW through Brooklyn Park, reducing the number of property acquisitions. Also glad to see that the two Golden Valley stations are still in the mix for now.

mattaudio
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby mattaudio » May 29th, 2015, 10:07 am

Still a 4+ lane profile through BP? I wonder if they could have reduced property impacts with a 2+ lane profile.

xanadu
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby xanadu » June 9th, 2015, 8:32 am

Did anyone attend the station planning meeting last week? I wasn't able to make it, but I'm curious about the general mood and how people were reacting to the plans.

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Nick
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Nick » June 9th, 2015, 5:25 pm

I went, had three cookies and lemonade. There was a TON of staff there, a decent amount of the public. The balls in general seemed kind of soft...impact on community gardens, a major concern, got some play. I asked a question about whether or not the cost estimate was reasonably correct given issues building trains through marshes in other parts of the metro, and whether or not they'd have said reasonably correct estimates prior to getting municipal consent this time.

Man, if I were staff I would absolutely refuse to do a Q & A before that many unscreened people.

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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » June 9th, 2015, 8:33 pm

Good thing you're not staff then.

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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Archiapolis » June 10th, 2015, 10:18 am

Nick wrote:I went, had three cookies and lemonade. There was a TON of staff there, a decent amount of the public. The balls in general seemed kind of soft...impact on community gardens, a major concern, got some play. I asked a question about whether or not the cost estimate was reasonably correct given issues building trains through marshes in other parts of the metro, and whether or not they'd have said reasonably correct estimates prior to getting municipal consent this time.
...and, the answer to this question was...?

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Nick
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Nick » June 10th, 2015, 3:57 pm

The staff guy from Metro Transit was very nice (and in fact followed me out into the lobby to talk after) but it seemed like about what you'd expect. They're out doing soil work, etc. right now, but that $1 billion number is based off of 5% engineering. We'll see how it plays out. This line has an even less compelling set of reasons to exist than SWLRT, and as such will have much less of a constituency than SWLRT (which also does not have much of a constituency) so if it's March 2016 and suddenly this thing is $1.5 billion, I dunno.

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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby min-chi-cbus » June 10th, 2015, 7:38 pm

The math is tricky, but I believe $1B in 2015 equates to $100B a year later, in construction financing terms. :ugeek:

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Nick
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Nick » June 10th, 2015, 7:51 pm

That sounds right

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Silophant
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Silophant » June 10th, 2015, 8:03 pm

Oh my god does it ever.

David Greene
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » June 11th, 2015, 8:52 am

Nick wrote:will have much less of a constituency than SWLRT (which also does not have much of a constituency)
:roll:

PigsEye

Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby PigsEye » July 10th, 2015, 3:38 pm

What is the most recent timeline for construction? Has it been delayed much? Could we see the blue line construction start before the green line extension is completed?


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