Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

[talindsay]

I do legitimately think it would be a good idea to ditch the current cut-to-the-bone buzzer noises with nicer chimes. I'm fond of the SNCF jingle:

[BBvideo 425,350]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbDwzNN2PuA[/BBvideo]

Wow, it's been a while since I heard that - yeah, that's much better than our beep. If SNCF is still using that it means they've been using it for at least a decade because that's what they used when I was there for my dissertation research. Of course, in places that have major systems those sounds are all trademarked and they're meant to be familiar and identifiable, whereas here they change things like that a lot because they want to seem snazzy and up-to-date.

Which isn't to say I'm not pleased with the huge branding improvements (some would say final attempt at developing a brand at all) that we're seeing with the launch of Metro and the green/blue lines and a map that only shows rapid transit. Those are all great things and our city finally is acting like a city, which is good. I just hope that they can let it settle into a routine and stick with it, and not keep tinkering like they've been doing for the whole time I've lived here.

[bandar_seri_begawan]

What exactly is the seat layout going to look like in these new cars? From mulad's pictures, I can't quite tell but it looks like every seat is facing forward/backward. Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the Hiawatha there are some bench style seats that face toward the windows, right?

[mulad]

There are some seats facing toward the aisle in the low-floor section between the doors. As with the Bombardier units, those seats can be folded up to make way for wheelchairs. I'm not sure if there was a spot exclusively reserved for wheelchairs, though.

[LRV Op Dude]

by bandar_seri_begawan
What exactly is the seat layout going to look like in these new cars? From mulad's pictures, I can't quite tell but it looks like every seat is facing forward/backward. Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the Hiawatha there are some bench style seats that face toward the windows, right?

I try to explain. The seats on the ends will face backward or toward the middle. By the doors you will have handicap space that has a bench the folds down facing sideways. There are 4 handicap spaces, 2 in each end. Next to the handicap space is one bike rack, 4 total per train. In the middle you will have seats that face each other. The seat are the same that are used on the new buses.

My camera broke today. So I only got a few good shots on my cheap cell phone.

Siemens S70 LRV #201

[seanrichardryan]

They are also 3 tons lighter and much more efficient.

[Andrew_F]

Star Tribune is reporting that there have currently been 59 type IIs ordered. I thought there were only 41. Can someone confirm that more have been ordered?

[mulad]

According to this presentation from the August 13 meeting of the Met Council Transportation Committee, the base order was for 41 vehicles, and there were originally options for 58 more. So far, 18 optional vehicles have also been ordered. Presumably the remaining 40 will be ordered as soon as the Southwest LRT line gets funding.

The original order requested 31 vehicles for Central plus 10 for Hiawatha. Now it's up to 47 for Central plus 12 for Hiawatha, for a total of 59. (This also brings Hiawatha up to a total of 39 vehicles including the 27 existing Bombardiers).

I'm not especially impressed by the fact that these are 3 tons lighter than the Bombardiers -- at 53 tons, those older units are about 30% heavier than their European counterparts, which weigh in around 41 tons. Some rail advocates complain about regulations such as buff strength, which causes mainline passenger equipment (Northstar, Amtrak, etc.) to be very heavy, but that's under the domain of the Federal Railroad Administration, while light-rail trains are under the auspices of the Federal Transit Administration. I suspect the agencies feed off each other for certain regs, though. So even with the weight reduction, the new Siemens units are more than 20% heavier than they need to be.

[MNdible]

Perhaps its to accommodate our extra American girth?

[Andrew_F]

Thanks, Mulad!

[Lancestar2]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =1&theater

OMG!!

They actually made the insides pretty! I can't belive they actual made the colors inside pretty!

Finally we can have a LRT system that look's all grown up on the inside!

[Nathan]

I'm not sure that it's OMG worthy, but they do look nice and simple.

[talindsay]

Funny one would describe the Type IIs as "pretty" - I think aesthetically they're a major step down externally, and internally they're maybe a slight improvement but still not terribly pleasing.

With that said, I don't think aesthetics is a high priority for this sort of thing, and utility, ease of use and longevity are far more important. On those fronts, I think the type IIs are likely a huge improvement.

I also like that the labeling and signage are finally adhering to internationally-accepted standards instead of random local decisions. The lines probably ought to be numbered or lettered in addition to their color names, but for now that's a good step in the right direction. The map signs over the door finally look like standard metro system signage.

[Lancestar2]

Funny one would describe the Type IIs as "pretty" - I think aesthetically they're a major step down externally, and internally they're maybe a slight improvement but still not terribly pleasing.

With that said, I don't think aesthetics is a high priority for this sort of thing, and utility, ease of use and longevity are far more important. On those fronts, I think the type IIs are likely a huge improvement.

I also like that the labeling and signage are finally adhering to internationally-accepted standards instead of random local decisions. The lines probably ought to be numbered or lettered in addition to their color names, but for now that's a good step in the right direction. The map signs over the door finally look like standard metro system signage.

you have to be kidding! ...right?

aesthetics are important enough to spend some basic time on the issue. In today's modern world where they are trying to make buses and other public transit seem "cool" as well as dependable and reliable some minimal effort must be made! Look at the Blue line with the "pee yellow" insides and blue to go with it and tell me you don't mind the ugly color scheme!

IMO the gray colors give the inside a SUV interior feel which I think will be hugely more liked than the pee or McD yellow or however you define that color. I'm sure the inside colors really won't have much affect on increasing or decreasing usage but it sure does look much more visually appeasing.

Nice neutral colors which makes it OMG pretty! ... COMPARED to this!

[talindsay]

Meh, people praised the look of the Flexity Swifts eight years ago; some people get caught up in the idea that something needs to be up-to-the-minute to look good but the reality is that trends in what looks "contemporary" and "up to date" change just simply for the sake of changing, and the vehicles have aged reasonably well. Their interiors are bright and reasonably resilient to abuse; if Metro Transit just simply cleaned them more frequently they'd look great. There was a time when orange, brown and avocado looked "modern" and people scoffed at the hard coldness of blue, white, and silver. That will come around again. In the mean time, glaring pure white may look nicer to us than soft yellow, but I can guarantee you than scuffed-up, dirty white won't. It's a lot harder to keep a pure white interior looking clean and sharp than a soft yellow interior.

In Paris, the old RER cars have brown vinyl seats and rubber floors; the new RER cars have soft cloth seats and bright colors. At first I sought out the cars with soft cloth seats and bright colors, but then I discovered that soft cloth seats with vomit and urine in them tend to hide that fact until you sit down; the brown vinyl seats, on the other hand, are clean and dry if they look clean and dry. From that realization onward, I chose to sit in the old cars with the vinyl brown seats.

So you can say aesthetics are important, but not sitting in a urine-soaked seat is ultimately more important.

[LRV Op Dude]

by talindsay » October 11th,
Their interiors are bright and reasonably resilient to abuse; if Metro Transit just simply cleaned them more frequently they'd look great.

All train are cleaned ever night when they pull in. I would agree that after being in service all day they get dirty and will look it. Unless it is a big spill or sick train they won't clean it until it pills in. I would like to see someday a person come in midday and pick up all the garbage that accumulate during the day.

[Lancestar2]

^

You do make a very good point about the fabric of the seat and I would agree with you there. It would be nice if we lived in a society where we could resist the urge to vomit or pee on the public transit seats but were just not that advanced yet

However when the origional color scheme came out in 2004 I STILL thought it was ugly! but I was satisfied enough not speak out nor did such a outlit as this site exist for me as I only recently discovered this community a year or two ago. the LRT is not even 10 years old and they are already planning a repainting of all the LRT cars with the new paint scheme! I think it would be realistic to repaint the interior of the cars every 5-15 years based on the need. Also they do have fabric paint which I would assume they could use to maintain the niceness of the LRT cars. By no means am I suggesting they address this issue now! heck I even think they are jumping the gun on repainting the outside's of the LRT cars as they really don't seem to be in bad shape. Although I wonder if that too will be a slow phase them into the new paint scheme when they have extra time.

I think the soft grays of the new LRT cars was modern still back in 2004 and even 2002! correct me if I'm wrong but I don't ever remember from 2000's to now that a interior such as the LRT's yellow and blue has ever been used or been very popular! I do think it's a realistic option for them to repaint the insides once they become covered with marks and dents ect ect. although for some reason I don't think it would be such a cheap and easy process as I would assume so that would give me pause to my idea.

[FISHMANPET]

The exterior isn't a design issue, it's a branding issue. They're change they're branding, which requires a different exterior.

And no design is going to look good for a long period of time, especially when it comes to rail cars which last decades.

[LRV Op Dude]

Here is Facts about Central Corridor LRVs (pdf) and Photos from the LRV unveiling from Metropolitan Council website.

[aguaman]

How bout instead of a single beep, it does that riff from Funkytown?

Edit: you know, bee-beep-boop-BEEP-boop, boo-boop-beep-boo-boop.

when i was in portland, the automated station announcement was the voice of a woman, followed by a man translating to spanish. but for the chinatown station, for some reason the voice was a different woman that spoke english with a heavy chinese accent. that was kinda funky. but they didn't carry over that funkiness to the station that was in the african-american part of town and i thought that was unfair. maybe instead of changing the voice at particular stations, they could have different background "beeps" as you say...

[LRV Op Dude]

Fron Central Corridor You Tube site:

[BBvideo 425,350]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8DPRyaX2Gg[/BBvideo]