Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby mulad » October 11th, 2013, 10:52 am

If that's the case, I don't really see the delivery schedule really becoming a constraint at all -- it's a matter of when everything else is ready (including operators to actually run the trains too). Kind of a disappointment, though, since the current bus headway (with the 16 and the 50) is more or less every 5 minutes at peak times, though the slower ride of the 16 screws up that calculation pretty quickly.

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby Tom H. » October 11th, 2013, 6:33 pm

Yeah - in my experience (around the University), you can expect an average headway of about 5 minutes for westbound 16s and 50s... meaning a 15 minute wait, then 2 16s and a 50 show up all at the same time.

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby FISHMANPET » April 5th, 2014, 6:20 pm

I went to all the effort to dredge this thread up, so may as well post this here. These seats next to the door make no sense, no reasonable person could sit in the window seat while still allowing room for a second person. These should just be seats that face the center aisle, to make more room for standees.

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby web » April 5th, 2014, 7:09 pm

left seat perfect for bags,briefcase,baby,small kid, groceries, all sorts of things

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby mulad » July 10th, 2014, 8:46 am

The last S70 from the order for the Central Corridor has arrived. I'm curious how long the option for additional cars will still be valid -- there's probably going to be an order for Southwest within the next, say, 18 months.

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby HiawathaGuy » July 10th, 2014, 11:37 am

mulad wrote:I'm curious how long the option for additional cars will still be valid -- there's probably going to be an order for Southwest within the next, say, 18 months.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Tran ... ling_stock):

Type II LRVs
In 2010, the Metropolitan Council negotiated a contract with Siemens Industry Incorporated to build up to 109 S70/Avanto light rail vehicles, with the first vehicle arriving in September 2012. Most are intended for the Green Line (initially the Central Corridor route from Minneapolis to Saint Paul) which opened in 2014, and is to be expanded from Minneapolis to Eden Prairie along the Southwest Corridor in 2018, though the initial vehicles were used on the Blue Line as part of that route's three-car expansion project. The initial order was for 41 vehicles: 31 for the Green Line[9] and 10 to expand the fleet of the Blue Line, allowing that route to operate three-car trains more consistently. Options for additional vehicles were exercised about a year later as contingency funding from the Central Corridor project opened up. As of 2012, 59 vehicles are on order: 47 for the Green Line and 12 for the Blue.[10] 40 options remain available, and they may be ordered once the Green Line's southwest extension receives funding.

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby mattaudio » July 10th, 2014, 11:55 am

Somehow I bet Mulad was the article of that note on Wikipedia :)

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby mulad » July 10th, 2014, 12:43 pm

Heh, most of it, though it looks like it's been tweaked since the Green Line opening. I haven't been updating things much since I got my current job, but have been meaning to get to a number of things.

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby talindsay » July 10th, 2014, 9:18 pm

I was the author of a chunk of that originally, and it doesn't answer the question, which was how long the options are available. I don't know the answer to that question either, but I know that they expected to get southwest in under this order but not Bottineau. This would imply to me that with the delays in southwest they will be cutting it close but should be able to make it. It must be a pretty tight timeline, or perhaps Siemens was charging a significant premium for the options to be added, because current plans point to Bottineau being soon enough that you would expect it to have been included.

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby LRV Op Dude » July 11th, 2014, 9:29 am

Metro Transit is reconfiguring the handicap spaces in the Type 2 LRVs to include a companion seating. The LRV will go from 4 bike racks to 2 bike racks. The Transportation Accessibility Advisory Committee minutes on June 4, 2014. Item 2

Metro Transit Modifies Light Rail Cars for $300,000

I wonder how the bikers will react to this?
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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby EOst » July 11th, 2014, 9:32 am

Every time I've seen someone bring a bike onto the train, they struggle for a couple minutes before someone else comes and helps them.

I'm sure for serious bikers putting them in those racks is old hat by now (I've never had much trouble with it myself) but a LOT of people just stand with their bikes in the aisle instead. Heck, my bike is even a little too long for the current racks, so I have to stand by it and hold it to make sure it doesn't go swinging around wildly.

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby mulad » July 11th, 2014, 10:00 am

I have yet to see someone put their bike in the rack the "correct" way, putting the rear wheel in first, then putting the front wheel around the hook. I haven't tried it myself (my bike is a recumbent that's a bit too long to fit). It took me quite a while to remember that there are spaces on the Siemens LRVs too, since they're split with one on each side of the (half-? one-third-?)car, rather than next to each other as in the Bombardiers. The front and rear car segments of the Bombardiers were longer, translating into a very short middle segment.

Perhaps when the Bottineau line comes around, we can consider adding extra segments to lengthen the existing LRVs rather than buy whole new ones. They're doing that for the Hudson-Bergen LRT in New Jersey, which goes through the cities across the river from Manhattan. Apparently DART in Dallas has also done it.

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/pas ... d-ons.html

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby mattaudio » July 11th, 2014, 10:32 am

Makes sense. I wonder: On a three car train, how many feet are wasted by the four unnecessary cabs and the couplers between the LRVs?

If the current LRVs are about 95' long, maybe future LRVs could be ~140' long. Two LRV trains would fit along our current platforms, and one could be used during times of extremely light demand.

Since we're going down this road, why not just go to single articulated trains that are 280-300' long? Less money spent on cabs and other vehicle-specific equipment, less bogies, and more space for riders. Many metros around the world use one long open design which helps spread out riders more evenly when approaching crush loads.

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby EOst » July 11th, 2014, 11:13 am

It would probably be far cheaper to just add another car than to retrofit the existing ones. Besides, since stations are all designed for 3-car trains, it would probably require extensive work to make them suit anything longer. Better to increase frequency and to relieve congestion at resulting bottlenecks (ie. downtown).

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby FISHMANPET » July 11th, 2014, 11:18 am

The idea would be to have 2 long-car trains that take up the same amount of space as our current 3-car trains, but have less wasted space on cabs and couplings
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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby HuskyGrad » July 11th, 2014, 11:42 am

FISHMANPET wrote:The idea would be to have 2 long-car trains that take up the same amount of space as our current 3-car trains, but have less wasted space on cabs and couplings
The current operations and maintenance facilities are set up to accommodate the current LRV length. Any change in length would require significant changes to the shops.

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby talindsay » July 11th, 2014, 11:57 am

Since we're building new shops for every line anyway instead of expanding a single shop, perhaps the Bottineau shops and LRVs can be ordered as single 300' articulated vehicles, which are then interspersed through the system according to demand. The feds pay for the additional capacity for a line but don't actually care how it's used operationally. By the time Bottineau is built we will surely have enough demand on both the Hiawatha and Central segments for at least a portion of the trains to be the full length all day. I hope they take this direction because a single 300' articulated vehicle can hold vastly more people than three 95' vehicles combined.

Here's an example of a "tram" manufactured by Siemens that is ~250' long: http://www.mobility.siemens.com/mobilit ... acity.aspx

I'll note that these theoretical vehicles don't really belong in the "Type II LRVs" thread since they would unquestionably be a new Type III (or even Type IV by that time).

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby LRV Op Dude » August 2nd, 2014, 2:08 pm

A LRV was delivered last week. Word around work is that is the last one in the order.
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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby MSPtoMKE » August 11th, 2014, 11:18 am

Somewhat buried in a Transportation Committee item about capital and operating grants is this little blurb about a capital request for the Blue Line for $6m:

"The Blue Line capital request will include 5 light rail vehicles. These vehicles will bring the existing fleet to proper spare ratio, improve system efficiency and maintain reliability of revenue service to improve future system ridership."

If approved, that would bring the LRV fleet to 91 vehicles.

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Re: Type II LRVs - Siemens S70

Postby VAStationDude » January 12th, 2015, 8:56 pm

LRV Op Dude wrote:Metro Transit is reconfiguring the handicap spaces in the Type 2 LRVs to include a companion seating. The LRV will go from 4 bike racks to 2 bike racks. The Transportation Accessibility Advisory Committee minutes on June 4, 2014. Item 2

Metro Transit Modifies Light Rail Cars for $300,000

I wonder how the bikers will react to this?
Saw this for the first time the other day. Two fixed double seats facing the center of the train and an open space with grab bar instead of the folding seats and bike rack.


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