Interstate 94

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mister.shoes
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Re: Interstate 94

Postby mister.shoes » April 22nd, 2013, 7:54 pm

Which means more parts of Wisconsin that had previously and joyfully been free of FIBS get to see what the rest of the state hates so much. Cool.
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Mdcastle
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Re: Interstate 94

Postby Mdcastle » April 23rd, 2013, 6:19 am

Or so people from Wisconsin (and Minnesota) have an easier time traveling to Chicago, which I do about twice a year. Developing a third route along US 12 and IL 53 has been progressing in fits and starts through most of our lifetimes, but won't be done any of our lifetimes, if every. It looks like after decades the IL 53 extension might be moving forward, but at a 45 mph 35E-esque, four lane toll parkway, and a parkway bypass of Richmond is getting considered, but there'll still be a huge gap, as well as in Wiscosnin plans for a bypass of Fort Atkinson were dropped due to politics due to local opposition and the lack of a pressing need since there's a decent road on the Illinois side, nor will there be one in the near foreseable future.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Interstate 94

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 23rd, 2013, 8:04 am

Yeah because there aren't plenty of other options out there to get from here to Chicago. The problem isn't the occasional WI/MN resident getting in to Chicago causing miles of backups. It's the sprawl of people commuting in and out and all around the city's bypasses causing it.

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Re: Interstate 94

Postby mattaudio » April 23rd, 2013, 8:32 am

True. One thing that I find fascinating about European freeways (which I will call interstates here) is that they are really not designed for travel within cities, just travel between cities. Many cities of 100,000 people will have only two interchanges on a interstate, at the far ends of the city. Larger cities with multiple interstates will have a beltway further outside the city, and with far fewer interchanges (and the interstates usually do not go all the way through the center city). The result is that interstates are not clogged with people making short trips, and they can serve their primary function, connecting across the country, much more efficiently.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Interstate 94

Postby min-chi-cbus » April 23rd, 2013, 2:49 pm

Mdcastle wrote:As a side note, Wisconsin has firm plans to expand I-39 / I-90 to 6 lanes between Illinois and Madison, this is a freeway that carries similar traffic volumes to I-94 to St. Cloud. The first phase of the project, rebuilding an interchange in the Janesville are, is getting underway in a few weeks. The Illinois Tollway is also expanding the last 4 lane stretch of I-90, so it will be six lanes from Portage, WI to Chicago.
Oh thank goodness -- that stretch is SO congested!! One notable difference between that stretch and the I-94 corridor between MSP and St. Cloud is that I-39/90 may have even MORE freight traffic than the other one (can't substantiate that however, other than driving it dozens of times).

However, I also think St. Cloud to MSP should be expanded to 3+ lanes in each direction, as that corridor will probably continue to see increases in activity for the next 20-30 years easily, as ND oil will continue to demand goods and services from the Twin Cities and beyond and cities between here and there will continue to grow at above-average clips (Fargo, Bismarck, Detroit Lakes, St. Cloud, and of course, the Twin Cities). My personal opinion.

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Re: Interstate 94

Postby uptowncarag » April 23rd, 2013, 3:29 pm

It should be expanded but we are so behind as far as transportation goes. There is an obsession with putting stop lights in instead of interchanges. Hwy 252 going north should not have any stop lights and Hwy 55 going west out of downtown should have interchanges that go past Medina. While I am at it 77 going south should not have any lights in Apple Valley and the ramps should to out to Airlake Industrial Park in Lakeville. We are so far behind.

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Re: Interstate 94

Postby VAStationDude » April 23rd, 2013, 4:00 pm

If there's anything Minneapolis Saint Paul doesn't need it's sprawl inducing freeways to the exurbs. Fix a few bottle necks closer in first and second ring burbs. Have we not learned anything from the last fifty years?

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Interstate 94

Postby min-chi-cbus » April 23rd, 2013, 4:49 pm

VAStationDude wrote:If there's anything Minneapolis Saint Paul doesn't need it's sprawl inducing freeways to the exurbs. Fix a few bottle necks closer in first and second ring burbs. Have we not learned anything from the last fifty years?
I agree, except for Interstates like I-94 that are so congested for so many rural miles that an expansion is warranted without inducing more sprawl necessarily......kind of like I-90/39 in WI.

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Mdcastle
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Re: Interstate 94

Postby Mdcastle » April 23rd, 2013, 5:39 pm

I agree MN 252 and Cedar should be freeways, but you can thank the city of Brooklyn Center for the former, and the city of Apple Valley for the later. Brooklyn Center wouldn't allow interchanges to be put in because they wanted land to develop to add to their tax base around the signals. Cedar there's no money for, and no clear winner as far as plans to fix it. One would build a couple of interchanges and the more major intersections leaving other signals, one would depress the freeway and make local access difficult. Traffic bound for the County 42 area would still have to get off and go through stoplight hell.

There were plans to convert MN 252 to a freeway, but they got dropped with the new transportation plan when it became obvious there was no money to pay for it. Mn/DOT is cooling off their obsession with stoplights. Although 1 was added with plans for 1 more, two are going away on MN 13, two are going away on MN 36, two on MN 7, two on US 169, etc, as well as a preference for not putting them in on rural expressways and getting rid of some of the ones on the more major expressways as funding allows.

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Re: Interstate 94

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 23rd, 2013, 6:27 pm

min-chi-cbus wrote:I agree, except for Interstates like I-94 that are so congested for so many rural miles that an expansion is warranted without inducing more sprawl necessarily......kind of like I-90/39 in WI.
I'm confused when I-94 outside the 694/494 loop and not on summer Friday/Sunday afternoons is congested? I've driven to Alexandria/Fargo/Grand Forks on plenty of Thursday, Friday, and Saturdays and never had a problem.

mattaudio wrote:True. One thing that I find fascinating about European freeways (which I will call interstates here) is that they are really not designed for travel within cities, just travel between cities. Many cities of 100,000 people will have only two interchanges on a interstate, at the far ends of the city. Larger cities with multiple interstates will have a beltway further outside the city, and with far fewer interchanges (and the interstates usually do not go all the way through the center city). The result is that interstates are not clogged with people making short trips, and they can serve their primary function, connecting across the country, much more efficiently.
This is basically 100% true. The tolls on most of the "A roads" help reinforce this behavior. The road surface quality, pull-off areas, safety items (like emergency phones), guard rails, and number of tunnels were all fantastically maintained, at least in France, Germany, and Italy where I've spent some time. And yeah, towns of 40-80,000 do only have the 1-2 freeway entrances way outside of town. Cars can exist in the town centers but aren't the only way to get around and don't dominate the landscape.

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Re: Interstate 94

Postby Suburban Outcast » April 23rd, 2013, 10:30 pm

If they add another lane to 94, I would want it to be a MNPass lane or just a shoulder lane that is just open for when accidents happen or congestion. Otherwise they can just keep improving the rural freeways by upgrading from asphalt to concrete like on 35.

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Le Sueur
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Re: Interstate 94

Postby Le Sueur » April 24th, 2013, 5:37 am

Mdcastle wrote:I agree MN 252 and Cedar should be freeways...
I love infrastructure. Most days I would agree with this, and silly things like a 6 lane 94 to St. Cloud and hell even a Stillwater bridge :o But, I lived in Northfield for four years using Cedar frequently in AppleValley (Even during the hellish construction), also lived @85th in Brooklyn Park for a year commuting down 252, and neither of these roadways crawl but for 40-80 minutes a day. Freeways are nice but if I left 20 minutes either side of rush-hour in BP congestion never phased me.
Now please build my tunnel: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f ... 721#p21721 :twisted:

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Mdcastle
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Re: Interstate 94

Postby Mdcastle » April 24th, 2013, 6:34 am

Fixing MN 252 / 85th and Cedar / 42 would make a big dent on the congestion in those areas without the expense of building two new freeways at this time. I'd suggested a diverging diamond at MN 252 since I can still see MN 252 being a full freeway in the future as that's an obvious gap in the freeway system. I can see Cedar not being a freeway, for that I'd suggest what was suggested before, elevating one direction of each over the other. Left turning traffic no longer interferes with each other or with through movements and you have a pair of simple two phase signals.

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Le Sueur
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Re: Interstate 94

Postby Le Sueur » April 24th, 2013, 7:08 am

Mdcastle wrote:Fixing MN 252 / 85th and Cedar / 42 would make a big dent on the congestion.
True. Although it is possible I am starting to become an urbanmsp convert and would say, the suburban congestion @85th and cedar can't take priority over merging ramp improvements/managed lanes on the congested inner arteries.
Both are reasonable improvements, but which comes first? 610 will fill up fast enough on its own.

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Re: Interstate 94

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 24th, 2013, 7:17 am

Le Sueur wrote:610 will fill up fast enough on its own.
And it will fill up (like the rest of them) "on their own" if we widen it as well. The fact that we're debating any number of projects like this that cost millions of dollars, all to ease the congestion of people who chose to put themselves further out shows how helplessly stuck we are in this cycle.

uptowncarag

Re: Interstate 94

Postby uptowncarag » April 24th, 2013, 3:27 pm

It is called planning. These things need to be done before all of the development happens. I forgot about one of the worst stretches of road which is Hwy 65 in Blaine near the sports center. That stretch should be a freeway with ramps.

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Nick
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Re: Interstate 94

Postby Nick » April 24th, 2013, 4:49 pm

We need to start some sort of trendy Internet meme for this constant re-discussion of how freeway capacity works...maybe like a picture of Robert Moses? I'm going to work on that.

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Re: Interstate 94

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 24th, 2013, 6:02 pm

Nick wrote:We need to start some sort of trendy Internet meme for this constant re-discussion of how freeway capacity works...maybe like a picture of Robert Moses? I'm going to work on that.
Sounds good to me. Maybe a picture of Charles Ponzi alongside him?

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woofner
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Re: Interstate 94

Postby woofner » April 30th, 2013, 10:21 am

From an item in today's TPW agenda:
7th Street Ramp from Westbound I-94
The City intends to submit a proposal for construction of a new exit ramp from westbound I-94 into downtown. This 7th Street Ramp would replace the existing 5th Street Ramp, which would be re-purposed as a local connection between downtown and the Cedar-Riverside neighborhood.
Cool that they're actively working on it, although I'm not sure I see much chance for either of the granting programs they're applying for:
CIMS – Corridor Investment Management Strategy
The CIMS Program represents an initial Pilot Solicitation by MNDOT. The Program is seeking projects that advance the Minnesota GO objectives of Quality of Life, Economic Competitiveness, and Environmental Health. The maximum award through this program is $10 Million and requires a 10% local match. Projects must be on the State Trunk Highway system (includes Interstates) and must be let for construction by January, 2015.
TED – Transportation for Economic Development
This will be the third year that MNDOT has solicited for projects through the TED Program. Hennepin County submitted a successful TED proposal, supported by the City, for construction of the 4th Avenue Ramp to northbound I-35W. The maximum award through this program is $7 Million and requires a 30% local match. Projects can be located on any road, involving any mode of travel. Projects must be let by January, 2015.
But then I don't really get how the 4th St ramp project is "economic development."
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Re: Interstate 94

Postby mattaudio » April 30th, 2013, 10:23 am

How would 5th St connect to Cedar-Riverside? Connect to the Blue Line grade crossing at 15th Ave S>


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