Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

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QuietBlue
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby QuietBlue » March 22nd, 2018, 10:32 am

Since there are already express buses that run along the Red Line route (albeit during more limited hours), that's probably part of the reasoning too. Most people already take those if the timing works out.

Bakken2016
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby Bakken2016 » March 22nd, 2018, 11:53 am

QuietBlue wrote:
March 22nd, 2018, 10:32 am
Since there are already express buses that run along the Red Line route (albeit during more limited hours), that's probably part of the reasoning too. Most people already take those if the timing works out.
Just get rid of the express buses, and beef up the service on the Red Line, and extend it to downtown.

mattaudio
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby mattaudio » March 22nd, 2018, 12:16 pm

I think we should look strongly at how we can curtail express service in this corridor and supplant with Red Line extension to downtown. There are already express buses that stop at multiple stations along the corridor, especially during shoulder hours of rush hour such as the 477V or 477R. If the Red Line ran through Downtown, it could replace many of these express buses. I think there would still need to be express buses during peak hours.

tmart
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby tmart » March 22nd, 2018, 12:46 pm

I wonder if maybe it's a dumb turf war between MVTA and Metro Transit. If MT's really that concerned about making sure the Red Line riders use the Blue Line to get downtown, it's possible that MVTA wants express buses from the South Metro to be exclusively MVTA service and not Metro.

QuietBlue
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby QuietBlue » March 22nd, 2018, 2:13 pm

One issue with replacing the express buses with the Red Line would be the extra time added to trips by servicing the MOA; getting in and out of there would slow things down a fair amount.

Also, some of the express routes that run along Cedar/77 don't just run through that corridor -- they stop elsewhere too, such as the Blackhawk P&R in Eagan, the Minnesota Zoo, etc. It would require a substantial rework of the connecting routes and probably expansion of the existing Red Line station parking as well if the express buses replaced by the Red Line no longer serviced those locations (when I took it, a lot of riders on the 472 used the Blackhawk P&R, for example).

Tcmetro
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby Tcmetro » March 22nd, 2018, 2:16 pm

An extension north to Minneapolis would reduce the trip time by approximately 15-20 minutes, as well as eliminate the transfer penalty.

Maybe it would be worthwhile to run every other trip north as a test to see how well it would perform. Would be nice during 35w construction as well

DanPatchToget
Target Field
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby DanPatchToget » March 22nd, 2018, 9:40 pm

QuietBlue wrote:
March 22nd, 2018, 10:32 am
Since there are already express buses that run along the Red Line route (albeit during more limited hours), that's probably part of the reasoning too. Most people already take those if the timing works out.
By that logic why are we building the light rail extensions when there are already express buses?

I'm not saying eliminate all express service on this corridor and replace it with the Red Line. If the Red Line was extended north I don't see major impacts happening to the express service. At most a few trips on the 477 get cut and the 475 is reduced to a few trips during peak time in peak direction.

QuietBlue
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby QuietBlue » March 23rd, 2018, 7:39 am

There's no way a Red Line bus that has to make all of its existing stops plus a stop at MOA on its route is going to be as fast as the existing express buses. That's what it would be up against. Sure, a Red Line bus that goes downtown is going to be faster than Red Line + Blue Line, and it would be a good substitute for that. But expecting riders who want an express bus to be content with a slower Red Line bus to downtown is unrealistic.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby DanPatchToget » March 23rd, 2018, 9:21 am

QuietBlue wrote:
March 23rd, 2018, 7:39 am
There's no way a Red Line bus that has to make all of its existing stops plus a stop at MOA on its route is going to be as fast as the existing express buses. That's what it would be up against. Sure, a Red Line bus that goes downtown is going to be faster than Red Line + Blue Line, and it would be a good substitute for that. But expecting riders who want an express bus to be content with a slower Red Line bus to downtown is unrealistic.
I don't know if you're talking to me, but yes I know that. Like I said previously, there would be little, if any, cuts to express service with a Red Line extension to downtown.

Some people who use express buses in the east metro were ticked because they thought the Gold Line would replace those buses and they would have to deal with slower station-to-station service. That's not the intent of these BRT and LRT routes. Its to provide all day service in both directions giving people who use the express buses another option of travel (if they have to leave work early then chances are likely the express bus isn't running), allowing people who travel off-peak a convenient option, and allowing people who travel suburb-to-suburb a convenient option while being more economical than an express bus running all day in both directions.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby HiawathaGuy » March 23rd, 2018, 10:19 am

I'm still amazed that this is even being debated... if the infrastructure is being built out to support the Red Line BRT to through-route MOA on to downtown, it should be. It gives people more options, which is always good. If this adds riders from East Bloomington to the ride pool, who now perhaps don't want to spend 1/2 hour on the Blue Line, but could support taking the Red Line from MOA to downtown, via 35W (the same way they'd drive), I'm all for it. I don't think any current express routes from AV/Lakeville/Eagan/Burnsville need to be eliminated. It shouldn't be about this vs that, but really a this & that option.

QuietBlue
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby QuietBlue » March 23rd, 2018, 10:27 am

Just to clarify, I'm all for expanding the Red Line to downtown Minneapolis, because that will make a lot more useful, particularly for riders traveling outside of rush hours. My intent was to show why others may not consider it necessary, but I think that doing so is a good idea as long as it's not considered a substitute for the express routes.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby HiawathaGuy » March 23rd, 2018, 11:42 am

QuietBlue wrote:
March 23rd, 2018, 10:27 am
Just to clarify, I'm all for expanding the Red Line to downtown Minneapolis, because that will make a lot more useful, particularly for riders traveling outside of rush hours. My intent was to show why others may not consider it necessary, but I think that doing so is a good idea as long as it's not considered a substitute for the express routes.
I never doubted that - I meant I can't believe Metro Transit/Met Council is still debating this...

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sdho
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby sdho » March 23rd, 2018, 2:44 pm

Given what a dud the Red Line has been so far, I guess I don't see an extension as making a dramatic improvement -- and I wouldn't support it if it meant "splitting" Orange Line frequency. But if it was just layered on top, it would be a nice addition. I agree time from MOA to downtown would be better on 35W most of the day. Having an all-day express bus from 66th and Cedar would also be really nice for the development area there. And obviously 46th St and Lake St Station would get even better frequency than they're already slated to.

DanPatchToget
Target Field
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Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

Postby DanPatchToget » April 14th, 2018, 9:28 pm

Red Line is shut down from 8 PM to 8 AM.

And the anti-LRT crowd will be silent.

mattaudio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » July 30th, 2018, 7:29 am

If we're going to discuss hypothetical exurban extensions to BRT lines, I'd rather see the Red Line extended to Downtowns Lakeville and Farmington. Let's connect old urbanized neighborhoods before we try to connect sprawlscapes. https://goo.gl/maps/2V8CTWNW5F22

DanPatchToget
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » July 30th, 2018, 2:56 pm

mattaudio wrote:
July 30th, 2018, 7:29 am
If we're going to discuss hypothetical exurban extensions to BRT lines, I'd rather see the Red Line extended to Downtowns Lakeville and Farmington. Let's connect old urbanized neighborhoods before we try to connect sprawlscapes. https://goo.gl/maps/2V8CTWNW5F22
How exactly are you going to route the Red Line to both of those downtowns (without branching, rapid transit routes like the Red and Orange need one simple route if we ever want regular people to be comfortable using them)? There's also the fact that between Apple Valley and Downtown Lakeville and Farmington its transit-hostile suburban subdivisions and farm fields (mostly the latter).

mattaudio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » July 30th, 2018, 3:19 pm

See the attached link.

DanPatchToget
Target Field
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » July 30th, 2018, 4:25 pm

Now what are the chances that actually happens over the official plan of ending it at an empty park & ride lot nowhere near either downtown? https://www.google.se/maps/@44.6396209, ... a=!3m1!1e3

Oreos&Milk
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Oreos&Milk » August 1st, 2018, 12:08 am

nothing more exciting than a proposed BRT line terminating next to a Kwip Trip. Rapid bus routes and milk in a bag. God bless Murica!

mattaudio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » August 1st, 2018, 7:07 am

That Kwik Trip is in a walkable downtown that serves as the urban center for thousands of people. Should we not worry about transit on Washington because it might pass Bobby and Steves? Or can you believe we built one of the metro's major transit hubs within eyesight of the North Loop Holiday?


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