urbanMSP

So I know it was hashed out a bit over a month ago, but reading the updated plans for the MOA transit station just had me thinking about the Red Line and through-routing. I know it's designed as a transfer point, but we have to admit the massive opportunity cost of not running the Red Line all the way from downtown to AV. We're spending a good amount of money making the RL faster in its current route (MOA, Cedar Grove inline station), and we're going to spend a bunch of other money on a Lake St Station, in addition to the 46th St Station. (we should also be building a station at 38th St, and the more all-day transit services we run on 35W, the more justification there is to do it).

The benefits of having a route that stops along all these major transfer points in South Minneapolis for a then-single-seat ride all the way to places AV makes it 1) a much faster trip for the people who currently have to manage a bunch of shitty transfers to get to jobs, and 2) more likely people will shift modes if it's single transfer. Yeah, I agree with everyone the land uses SOTR suck, but I mean holy crap I might actually consider taking the 38 to the RL to get to the outlet mall rather than driving. And, it may have been discussed earlier, but if we bought a few more buses (make them articulated perhaps?) and upped the frequencies at some point, we could use the RL as a replacement to some of the existing express services (yes, this could mean running every other RL as express from MOA-Downtown) offered by MVTA and let them operate more local feeders throughout the day with that budget. Which would be a good thing for the areas of Apple Valley that at least look like they're trying to do infill.

It was part of the plan to have some express red line buses in the mix that went to downtown(s). I forget if they were both or either which one. Due to poor ridership the expansion plans to get to that phase is coming at a snail's pace...

Considering poor ridership I don't see the justification for much more investment over other projects such as blue and green extensions and orange line. Once funding is secured for those segments, then funding for the rapid bus network will be the next priority. Having the occasional incremental phased in improvement along the red line is a healthy balance.

The new center medium station at the outlet mall will have a big positive impact. Wish they would next focus on building the Palomino station. If the Riverside corridor does end up being a bus route it sure would be nice to see it combined into the red line! Although if riverside needs the articulated busses, and the red line can't easily merge express routes into the red line to make it a smooth even ridership corridor then I guess even if it looks ugly on a map 2 small lines would be best.

Construction of the Cedar Grove online station is moving along.





Sorry I couldn't get any pics from the freeway. Figured it wasn't worth it to try to snap some pics while driving!

Red line updates:

- Weekday service to be cut to every 20 minutes in August
- Cedar Grove Freeway station opens on May 20
- New 4:05/4:09 AM SB trip starting May 20
- Planning for CG and Cliff Stations underway, with meeting next Thursday (4/27/17)

http://www.mvta.com/route-alerts/upcomi ... ve-may-20/
https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Government/ ... packet.pdf
http://www.hkgi.com/projects/EaganBRTStations/index.php

So, planning for expensive new stations, while simultaneously cutting service? Wild.

How is it supposed to gain new riders while serving only the current stations?

Well, that's... disappointing... I was hoping that they would be able to use some of the running time savings with the opening of the online station (and possibly running a bit faster near MOA with the modified routing) to be able to expand 15 minute service to at least Saturdays so the Red Line would meet the minimum requirements of the High Frequency Network. Perhaps if the funding gap from the State is ever resolved?

The Cedar Grove inline station is open. Much faster than getting off the freeway, and only a short walk to the local buses. It appears express buses will be using the new inline station as well.

From the upcoming August 19th schedule update...

• Schedule times will be adjusted.
• Weekday service will change to every 20 mins.

A heads-up: streets.mn is hosting a group ride on the Red Line Friday night (September 8.) All are welcome!
https://streets.mn/event/ride-the-red-l ... treets-mn/

I have always felt this project wouldn't have been a failure if they would have just spent the money to extend the Blue Line!

Yeah, agreed. I can see the argument that it's just not worth the cost to extend it out there, but without at least some level of direct service to Downtown it probably wasn't worth building in the first place. Like many folks here, I'm hopeful that they'll at least extend the line to use the Orange Line 35W stations to get downtown service.

It's sort of like the Northstar line--like, what did we expect would happen when we cut St. Cloud out of the project? We need to get better at identifying the minimum useful service for our projects.

Was there ever an exact routing in mind when the McAndrews LRT was being looked at? I know it was supposed to serve the Minnesota Zoo, but since thats off the main corridor that would be pretty difficult.

Was there ever an exact routing in mind when the McAndrews LRT was being looked at? I know it was supposed to serve the Minnesota Zoo, but since thats off the main corridor that would be pretty difficult.

"The McAndrews Corridor was a future transit corridor in southern suburbs of the Twin Cities that would connect both Burnsville and Apple Valley to the Capitol of Minnesota, Downtown Saint Paul, the University of Minnesota, the Minnesota Zoo and Downtown Minneapolis and will also connect various Park & Ride lots and as well as Transit Stations and Bus Terminals along the way by using the Central Corridor, Interstate 35E, and Interstate 94. The corridor is named for County Road 38 which is a primary east-west link from Burnsville to Apple Valley to Rosemount. Locally South of the River, CR-38 is known as McAndrews Road.
Possible plans were to add light rail in the mix, but, it was canceled because the Cedar Transitway is more favored then the McAndrews LRT"

That is all I can find on that corridor.

I don't think that the McAndrews corridor was ever studied. It could have been a potential alternative in the Cedar Ave alternatives analysis from the late 90s.

The wikipedia article for this "McAndrews corridor" was written by someone who was putting a lot of fake info about MVTA bus routes and transit corridors, about a decade ago when I used to edit wikipedia. (it's weird to think I've been on the various iterations of these forums for so long)

When there was an open house for Phase 2 of the Red Line I asked why they weren't considering extending it north to Minneapolis, and not surprisingly the answer was people can take the Blue Line and they don't want to take riders away from it. But at the current frequency and assuming there are a few stops along the way (66th, and 46th and Lake Street shared with the Orange Line) how many riders would choose the Red Line over the Blue Line going between the MOA and Minneapolis? During rush hour I feel the Red Line would take the same amount of time or a little more than the Blue Line, and the only travel segments they would be competing on is between downtown and the MOA (maybe Lake Street area and MOA too, but that's a stretch). Likely almost all of the riders who use the Red Line and transfer to the Blue Line would stay on the Red Line, but considering Red Line ridership is around 900 per weekday that's a tiny loss. So instead of first extending it to areas where we know there's demand for transit and plenty of people are transit dependent, we're studying extending it to an area that is currently mostly fields and single family homes. I do support a southern extension to Lakeville, but a northern extension should take priority.

When there was an open house for Phase 2 of the Red Line I asked why they weren't considering extending it north to Minneapolis, and not surprisingly the answer was people can take the Blue Line and they don't want to take riders away from it. But at the current frequency and assuming there are a few stops along the way (66th, and 46th and Lake Street shared with the Orange Line) how many riders would choose the Red Line over the Blue Line going between the MOA and Minneapolis? During rush hour I feel the Red Line would take the same amount of time or a little more than the Blue Line, and the only travel segments they would be competing on is between downtown and the MOA (maybe Lake Street area and MOA too, but that's a stretch). Likely almost all of the riders who use the Red Line and transfer to the Blue Line would stay on the Red Line, but considering Red Line ridership is around 900 per weekday that's a tiny loss. So instead of first extending it to areas where we know there's demand for transit and plenty of people are transit dependent, we're studying extending it to an area that is currently mostly fields and single family homes. I do support a southern extension to Lakeville, but a northern extension should take priority.

When was this open house?

If I remember right it was in early 2016. I think they had design plans for the online Cedar Grove Station as well.

When you say extending it north to Minneapolis, do you mean along Cedar, or collocated with the Orange Line along I-35W? I've seen proposals for both.

When you say extending it north to Minneapolis, do you mean along Cedar, or collocated with the Orange Line along I-35W? I've seen proposals for both.

77, 62/Crosstown, and collocated with Orange Line on 35W.