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Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 10th, 2013, 2:28 pm
by woofner
Thanks Matt. That kills my criticism of the vagueness of their demands. I would still hope they are leaving some wiggle room for some alterations after the public (the demands of which they are nominally trying to satisfy with this blackmail) reviews their plans.

Personally I'd agree with you that $130m likely represents way more parking than they need (or else it's all in a 20-story ramp), that the Downtown circulator is likely unnecessary in a downtown the size of Rochester's if you're also building a $76m BRT system, and that $100m buys way more convention center than Rochester would ever need. Let's keep the sum the same and shift those line items into HSR.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 10th, 2013, 3:18 pm
by widin007
If they are threatening to expand out of state, why couldn't they just expand in Minneapolis? Since it probably has everything they are asking out of Rochester. But I suppose they couldn't siphon more money out of the state if that were the case.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 10th, 2013, 3:23 pm
by nasa35
widin007 wrote:If they are threatening to expand out of state, why couldn't they just expand in Minneapolis? Since it probably has everything they are asking out of Rochester. But I suppose they couldn't siphon more money out of the state if that were the case.
There's plenty of places that would give Mayo what they want. This is actually an investment, not a hole (LRT) where money goes to die.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 10th, 2013, 4:00 pm
by woofner
I don't mean to cause a rupture in the space/time continuum by replying to this, but I can't resist pointing out that nearly a third of the cost of Mayo's plans is for LRT (the $430m Downtown Circulator). I'd add something snarky about how you'd know this if you'd actually been paying attention to this thread, but I'm not sure it's necessary.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 10th, 2013, 5:41 pm
by FISHMANPET
nasa35 wrote:
widin007 wrote:If they are threatening to expand out of state, why couldn't they just expand in Minneapolis? Since it probably has everything they are asking out of Rochester. But I suppose they couldn't siphon more money out of the state if that were the case.
There's plenty of places that would give Mayo what they want. This is actually an investment, not a hole (LRT) where money goes to die.
I'm not sure what could possibly please you, since you seem to just hate everything but massive towers. Are you hoping for some Corbusian with huge towers everywhere seperated by huge tracts of grass and parking structures?

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 7:49 am
by stp1980
I think it would be good for MN to cultivate Rochester as a thriving mid-size city, and some subsidy may be due to go their way. However, if you are going to ask for $500 million dollars over a long period of time, shouldn't PR 101 be to ask for a mere $50 million dollars a year rather than ask for the headline number of $500 million? By starting out shooting themselves in the feet, they have made this very difficult to be palatable at the legislature. Additionally, how involved (or able) is the City of Rochester able to handle this? It seems like Mayo has more power than they do!

Well, if this doesn't go ahead though, at least we have Elk Run to look forwards to! ;)

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 8:02 am
by mattaudio
Indeed. http://www.tkda.com/project-gallery/201 ... ?cat_id=22

At the "Mayo Ratio" (30,000+ jobs claimed if $1.5 billion is invested in infrastructure, or $50,000 a job) then the farmland around this $35 million interchange in Elk Run should easily create 700 jobs, right?

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 10:22 am
by nasa35
Yourcomment makes no sense fishnet, none. The Rochester Mayo development woulld not be grand towers. It would also be an investment. Like i said, makes no sense. :?:

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 10:38 am
by MSPtoMKE
I like Light Rail as much or more than (most) people on this board, but I have a hard time envisioning a corridor in Rochester that would be well suited for it. Outside of the downtown core, Rochester is fairly suburban in character. Light Rail might start to change that a bit with new development, but I think you have to start out with a corridor with some density. BRT seems like a much better choice, perhaps starting with a north-south corridor on Broadway, as well as an east-west corridor.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 10:45 am
by mattaudio
Pages 106 to 112 of the downtown master plan show their thoughts for transit, including 2nd Street and Broadway as primary transit corridors. While these corridors are already dense in the inner neighborhoods for aBRT or streetcars, I think Rochester also has a huge opportunity to build a LRT corridor at a low per-mile cost paralleling the 52 corridor in NW Roch, which is growing and also has the IBM complex (which will either be a significant ridership factor, or will be a significant redevelopment project if it closes).

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 11:12 am
by RailBaronYarr
nasa35 wrote:Yourcomment makes no sense fishnet, none. The Rochester Mayo development woulld not be grand towers. It would also be an investment. Like i said, makes no sense. :?:
Certainly. Who could question all the great land-use and jobs created long-term by parking that costs $130M!? What an investment. Maybe Rochester can bump up their tourism department to start printing flyers for all the people eager to come visit their nation's largest parking structure.

You also did a great job ignoring redisciple's point that $430M would be spent on LRT, the very hated thing you compare a 'real' investment to.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 12:05 pm
by nasa35
RailBaronYarr wrote:
nasa35 wrote:Yourcomment makes no sense fishnet, none. The Rochester Mayo development woulld not be grand towers. It would also be an investment. Like i said, makes no sense. :?:
Certainly. Who could question all the great land-use and jobs created long-term by parking that costs $130M!? What an investment. Maybe Rochester can bump up their tourism department to start printing flyers for all the people eager to come visit their nation's largest parking structure.

You also did a great job ignoring redisciple's point that $430M would be spent on LRT, the very hated thing you compare a 'real' investment to.
That aspect would never happen. Who would pay that daily loss margin? LRT is quite possibly, insane. Better buses will always be the SMARTER move. They only lose about 20% of the LRT losses.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 12:17 pm
by mattaudio
Rochester currently has close to 100% operational loss on buses, since Mayo covers buses for employees. Based on crude calculations on numbers I have from two sources, Rochester has a much higher rate of employment in CBD compared to MSP.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 12:23 pm
by nasa35
mattaudio wrote:Rochester currently has close to 100% operational loss on buses, since Mayo covers buses for employees. Based on crude calculations on numbers I have from two sources, Rochester has a much higher rate of employment in CBD compared to MSP.
Public transportation is a necessary evil, I get that. But there's no reason not to make it as affordable as possible.Personally, if it was affordable I WOULD LOVE LRT. Who wouldn't?

This MAYO expansion can be nothing but a great thing for the state and Rochester. I hope the Minnesota House doesn't blow this.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 2:12 pm
by Unity77
nasa35 wrote: This MAYO expansion can be nothing but a great thing for the state and Rochester. I hope the Minnesota House doesn't blow this.
I have a feeling they will blow it. I just read that many lawmakers actually made fun of Mr. Noseworthy's (President & CEO) comment that there are “49 states” eager to have Mayo invest $3 billion for expansion of the company’s operations. One Rep., John Lesch, stated, "That was a dumb thing to say. It was dumb, dumb, dumb.” If I were Noseworthy, I would move the headquarters and as many jobs possible elsewhere. I'm sure his home state of Massachusetts would love to help out Mayo.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 2:14 pm
by nasa35
Unity77 wrote:
nasa35 wrote: This MAYO expansion can be nothing but a great thing for the state and Rochester. I hope the Minnesota House doesn't blow this.
I have a feeling they will blow it. I just read that many lawmakers actually made fun of Mr. Noseworthy's (President & CEO) comment that there are “49 states” eager to have Mayo invest $3 billion for expansion of the company’s operations. One Rep., John Lesch, stated, "That was a dumb thing to say. It was dumb, dumb, dumb.” If I were Noseworthy, I would move the headquarters and as many jobs possible elsewhere. I'm sure his home state of Massachusetts would love to help out Mayo.
Same thing happened to Target Executives, that's why they're building in BP. I hope at the end of the day the law makers apologize or at least STFU.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 2:24 pm
by beykite
So when a professional sports team threatens to leave they all freak out and cave into a horrible decision. But when its a major employer who is asking for money to improve the states infrastructure and livability so they can in turn create jobs and expand the tax base, they call him dumb? Hmm... If I lived in his district I would for sure be getting in touch with him.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 2:59 pm
by nasa35
beykite wrote:So when a professional sports team threatens to leave they all freak out and cave into a horrible decision. But when its a major employer who is asking for money to improve the states infrastructure and livability so they can in turn create jobs and expand the tax base, they call him dumb? Hmm... If I lived in his district I would for sure be getting in touch with him.
I disagree that was a horrible decision; But this will be for sure.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: April 11th, 2013, 3:07 pm
by VAStationDude
The flawed tax capture scheme has been replaced by a direct state subsidy. The original proposal tied the subsidy to increasing tax receipts based on 2011 levels. Doing those measurements is very tricky and left up to a new Rochester authority would be prone to all kinds of shenanigans.

Re: Mayo Expansion Proposal - Rochester

Posted: June 6th, 2013, 3:07 pm
by mattaudio