The Venue at Dinkytown - (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
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Nick
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The Venue at Dinkytown - (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby Nick » February 3rd, 2013, 5:12 pm

We lost this whole topic with the data loss, so I'll be the first to try to start it back up again...a picture of the site is below.

Here's a Daily article recapping a bit of it. Opus is probably buying the building where House of Hanson, the Podium, and the Bookhouse are, as well as the surface parking a couple houses behind it. Massing models indicated a 4-6 story building on the back half of the block over to where B Loco is.
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gahwi003
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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby gahwi003 » February 3rd, 2013, 11:54 pm

Had a chit-chat with an employee of the store while strolling around. She indicated, as we all assumed, that the owner had been looking to sell since the UTEC plans with a grocery became unveiled. From what I gathered, the employees and the owner are not losing sleep over selling except for the loss of jobs.

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby gahwi003 » February 4th, 2013, 12:08 am

Link For Article

According to a Minnesota Daily poll, 68 percent of voters believe that “as more and more luxury apartments replace old GEMS, Dinkytown is losing the charm that makes it so special.”/i]

Gems? Oh please..... :roll:

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby stock345 » February 4th, 2013, 2:30 am

I know the guy who wrote this article. Shared a bathroom with him in the dorms. Small world.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby min-chi-cbus » February 4th, 2013, 9:24 am

gahwi003 wrote:Link For Article

According to a Minnesota Daily poll, 68 percent of voters believe that “as more and more luxury apartments replace old GEMS, Dinkytown is losing the charm that makes it so special.”/i]

Gems? Oh please..... :roll:

It's amazing what passes for a "gem" these days!

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Nathan
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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby Nathan » February 4th, 2013, 10:34 am

min-chi-cbus wrote:
gahwi003 wrote:Link For Article

According to a Minnesota Daily poll, 68 percent of voters believe that “as more and more luxury apartments replace old GEMS, Dinkytown is losing the charm that makes it so special.”/i]

Gems? Oh please..... :roll:

It's amazing what passes for a "gem" these days!


I think a lot of people have a hard time not associating the business in the building with the building itself. A lot of people don't see '70's plain brick building' they see the vendors and what they have meant to them over the years. That, can be a gem regardless of the structure. However they also need to realize that those business have a completely fair chance to move or re-organize, and continue to be gems.

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby twincitizen » February 4th, 2013, 7:15 pm

Excellent editorial by the Strib: http://www.startribune.com/opinion/189269801.html

Whether you agree or not, it is very encouraging to see the editorial board tackling issues of urbanism, density, etc. The core of their argument is spot on: Height matters not, it's what's going on at the street level that's important.

Go forth and thumbs down the awful comments. Especially the ones bitching about parking.

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby stock345 » February 5th, 2013, 3:05 am

Please do.^^^^^ Read this earlier and was surprised at the first few comments. A little overstated to say the least.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby min-chi-cbus » February 5th, 2013, 7:59 am

That's odd.....usually the Comments section is full of insight and meaningful chatter.....

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby Didier » February 6th, 2013, 1:19 pm

As was discussed on the old thread, I think the issue for most of us who are on the fence is not the House of Hanson building but rather the precedent. This development would be the first of its kind in the actual heart of Dinkytown, and while it is to scale with surrounding developments such as Sydney Hall, nothing in the 4th-14th area is nearly this big (height or width). So what does it mean for the future of the neighborhood to start developing like this? Personally I think thoughtfully considering that is more important than jumping on the free market wave as soon as it breaks.

MinnPost today had a story about historic preservation in general, which included this quote from author Jane Jacobs. I think it is fitting to this discussion.
Cities need old buildings so badly it is probably impossible for vigorous streets and districts to grow without them... Chain stores, chain restaurants and banks go into new construction. But neighborhood bars, foreign restaurants and pawnshops go into older buildings . . . Well-subsidized opera and art museums often go into new buildings. But the unformalized feeders of the arts–studios, galleries, stores for musical instruments and art supplies, backrooms where the low earning power of a seat and a table can absorb uneconomic discussions–these go into old buildings.
http://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2013/ ... y-and-wise

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby Suburban Outcast » February 6th, 2013, 3:16 pm

With the Chateau towering over a block away, it would be cool to see density expanded nearby so it does not look like a monolith as much. I would be more against the project if it was destroying something older and taller, because I wouldn't call a one-story brick that looks like it was built in the 70-80's "historically significant", but losing small businesses is a bummer.

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby MNdible » February 6th, 2013, 3:50 pm

Suburban Outcast wrote:I would be more against the project if it was destroying something older...
There are a couple of very old Italianate houses that would be taken out by this development. They're shadows of their former selves, and it's very easy to walk by and not notice them, but they were handsome old houses once upon a time. For what it's worth.

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby Silophant » February 6th, 2013, 6:40 pm

Didier wrote:As was discussed on the old thread, I think the issue for most of us who are on the fence is not the House of Hanson building but rather the precedent. This development would be the first of its kind in the actual heart of Dinkytown, and while it is to scale with surrounding developments such as Sydney Hall, nothing in the 4th-14th area is nearly this big (height or width).
I've seen this point a lot, and I still don't understand it. If the actual heart of Dinkytown is centered on the intersection of 4th and 14th (where I'd lead someone asking me to take them to the heart of Dinkytown), why is this lot considered to be in it when 1301 is acceptably far away? By my admittedly imprecise measurement, this lot is maybe 25 feet closer to the intersection than 1301.


On another note, I think it's kinda funny/sad that, in everything I've read about this development, every piece has mentioned that the Book House and the Podium would be displaced, a few have mentioned that the hair salon would be displaced, and not a one has mentioned poor Duffy's Pizza.

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby gobezlij » February 6th, 2013, 6:59 pm

Silophant wrote: On another note, I think it's kinda funny/sad that, in everything I've read about this development, every piece has mentioned that the Book House and the Podium would be displaced, a few have mentioned that the hair salon would be displaced, and not a one has mentioned poor Duffy's Pizza.
Perhaps that is because the Podium has been in Dinkytown for 54 years and the Book House 36 years.

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby Suburban Outcast » February 7th, 2013, 4:00 am

MNdible wrote:
Suburban Outcast wrote:I would be more against the project if it was destroying something older...
There are a couple of very old Italianate houses that would be taken out by this development. They're shadows of their former selves, and it's very easy to walk by and not notice them, but they were handsome old houses once upon a time. For what it's worth.
I forgot about the houses, if they were more like their original selves it would be more disappointing to see them go.
Silophant wrote:On another note, I think it's kinda funny/sad that, in everything I've read about this development, every piece has mentioned that the Book House and the Podium would be displaced, a few have mentioned that the hair salon would be displaced, and not a one has mentioned poor Duffy's Pizza.
I wonder if they are planning to move into one of the retail spots in the new development.

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby Didier » February 7th, 2013, 8:57 am

Silophant wrote:I've seen this point a lot, and I still don't understand it. If the actual heart of Dinkytown is centered on the intersection of 4th and 14th (where I'd lead someone asking me to take them to the heart of Dinkytown), why is this lot considered to be in it when 1301 is acceptably far away? By my admittedly imprecise measurement, this lot is maybe 25 feet closer to the intersection than 1301.
For me it's because this is on the same block. But again, that's just me.

I just wish there was some way to infill those central Dinkytown blocks with smaller buildings, maybe with one or two floors of lofts above small storefronts, rather than one big, block-long development.

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Nathan
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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby Nathan » February 7th, 2013, 10:02 am

Didier wrote:I just wish there was some way to infill those central Dinkytown blocks with smaller buildings, maybe with one or two floors of lofts above small storefronts, rather than one big, block-long development.
This...

That's why I liked that project 2 blocks east with the three older buildings getting apartments tacked onto the back... I feel like they could re-use the old houses, build varied storefronts, and still have some apartments inside the block a bit... I feel like developers should be more interested in neighborhood building than building building, I feel like in the long run they'd do better.

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby trkaiser » February 7th, 2013, 10:29 am

That sounds like a recipe for a crappy looking, really disjointed neighborhood. We can't bemoan the loss of every single old, neglected single family house still standing in the middle of a business district. And the House of Hanson building is hideous. As much as I enjoy using that parking lot, I will still enjoy parking a few blocks away (or taking a bus or bike) to enjoy a denser, better looking Dinkytown that will have higher quality retail frontage thanks to this development.

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby gobezlij » February 7th, 2013, 11:09 am

trkaiser wrote:That sounds like a recipe for a crappy looking, really disjointed neighborhood.
Your crappy looking, really disjointed neighborhood may be my ideal dense city neighborhood. One with a diversity of buildings, some old, some new, some short, some taller, some beautiful, some even ugly. A diversity of buildings that can accommodate a diversity of uses - independent retailers in some and chains in others. Housing or offices above some storefronts. Parking lots hidden or built over.

The House of Hanson building is ugly, yes. It also serves a vital function in the neighborhood, offering presumably cheaper rents than will a new development, and thus being more affordable for independent retailers. By itself, it is ugly. In the context of the neighborhood, to me it fits in just fine and doesn't look half bad.

As for where the current tenants land, who knows. The Podium has said on their Facebook page that they will relocate somewhere, though probably not in Dinkytown.

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Re: House of Hanson Site (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

Postby mattaudio » February 7th, 2013, 11:23 am

What right do we have to tell land owners that they should keep/build spaces with lower rents than the spaces they could otherwise command. This is just like the affordable housing debate but for retail. There will always be areas of the city, even areas in or close to Dinkytown, with low rents. More commercial space necessarily reduces the equilibrium rents for other spaces elsewhere in the area.


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