Dinkytown Rentals Townhouses - (621 15th Avenue Southeast)

[lordmoke]

An apartment building designed to look like a row of houses. It will be replacing a row of houses.
Site plan and renderings:
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/www/gro ... 102177.pdf

[min-chi-cbus]

It doesn't look much like a row of houses to me.....It's definitely not a huge loss to the neighborhood, as those houses leave a lot to be desired, but I always like multiple smaller buildings over one or two large buildings and this project will be replacing 3 or 4 smaller structures. Oh well.

[gahwi003]

Link

"There’s another apartment complex springing up near the University of Minnesota, but it isn’t as high end as other new developments.

The unnamed Dinkytown project will have 12 townhome-style units and is designed to be more affordable for students.

The development, which will replace houses on the corner of 15th Avenue and Seventh Street, is slated to open in summer 2014."

It was first proposed as a 8-10 story building, but the land owner thought it was too expensive. I skimmed the article, but it sounds like the owner of Dinkytown Rentals is building this. That, or it is too early in the morning.....

[mplser]

8-10 stories down to 3.5 is quite the jump. disappointing.

[Suburban Outcast]

Wouldn't a 8-10 story mid-end apartment complex be more desirable to build than townhomes since it's directly on the 3 bus line? Doesn't more tenants = more profits anyways?

[min-chi-cbus]

I'm afraid that profit does not exist for metro transit.

[Suburban Outcast]

I'm afraid that profit does not exist for metro transit.

I wasn't talking about Metro Transit, but the developers. Doesn't having more units mean more potential for profits given there is enough demand (which I assume there is)? I really don't know much about real estate though. More mid-end apartments could be good in this corridor (at least 4-6 story apartments along 15th), while the luxury ones could stay closer to University/4th and Washington Ave.

[MNdible]

I think the key issue is "potential profit" vs. "potential risk". The currently proposed development is a low risk proposition. Upfront development costs are much lower, but in order to get that security, they're trading away potential future profits that a higher density, more expensive project might generate.

[min-chi-cbus]

Right....risk and overhead (costs). The bigger the building the more expensive, obviously, but it's incrementally more expensive as well. For example, and I'm completely making these numbers up, it might cost the developer $0.80 on the $1.00 to build the original building, but if the building were to be more massive, require more expensive materials, etc., the costs might escalate to $0.90 for every $1.00. That leaves less room for error and/or other expenses that will inevitably go into the project, such as vacancy.

So while it makes sense to pay 90% or more of your costs in the design and construction of your building in some markets and economies, it's usually a bit risky and an unnecessary risk at that. Go for the easy buck -- why not?!

[Suburban Outcast]

Fair enough, but the sad part about going for the easy buck is that probably helped fuel sprawling developments in the exurbs and suburbs in the first place. Too bad when they build townhomes they don't look closer to this, because then I wouldn't care about height too much:

EDIT: A more modern example of townhomes in Chicago

[RailBaronYarr]

Hey, calm down everyone. This is an incremental step up in density here. It has more character than Bierman Place which is much larger. It has 38 bedrooms vs the 10-12 existing in the existing homes. It also looks nicer than the existing places do (though I agree not as nice as turn of the century brownstones but who exactly is making places that look like that anymore nowadays anyway?). This is good change that doesn't turn all of Dinkytown in to 4-6 level megablock apartments. And, it being slightly cheaper in design means in 30-40 years it wouldn't be a travesty to take it it down for something with an increment more density.

[Suburban Outcast]

It also looks nicer than the existing places do (though I agree not as nice as turn of the century brownstones but who exactly is making places that look like that anymore nowadays anyway?).

Nobody does (at least in MN) sadly . Some places in Chicago have a modernized version of brownstones that don't look too bad (the other link under the original picture I posted shows a good example of one built recently), which I would like to see here. It's just when I hear the word townhomes I tend to think of suburban-style ones, but that might be because I live in the suburbs and see crappy-looking ones all the time. To be honest, the 621 15th Ave B&W side view blueprint reminded me of a Country Inn and Suites that you would see next to a freeway. But it will at least add more density to the neighborhood. I do agree that not everything needs to be 4-6 story superblocks, but I would like to see more apartments on smaller footprints on 15th Ave. The parking lot on 15th and 5th would be good place for development, though I can't imagine the complaints of losing more parking spots in Dinkytown. Star Tribune commenters would have a field day.

[RailBaronYarr]

Nobody does (at least in MN) sadly . Some places in Chicago have a modernized version of brownstones that don't look too bad (the other link under the original picture I posted shows a good example of one built recently), which I would like to see here. It's just when I hear the word townhomes I tend to think of suburban-style ones, but that might be because I live in the suburbs and see crappy-looking ones all the time. To be honest, the 621 15th Ave B&W side view blueprint reminded me of a Country Inn and Suites that you would see next to a freeway. But it will at least add more density to the neighborhood. I do agree that not everything needs to be 4-6 story superblocks, but I would like to see more apartments on smaller footprints on 15th Ave. The parking lot on 15th and 5th would be good place for development, though I can't imagine the complaints of losing more parking spots in Dinkytown. Star Tribune commenters would have a field day.

I'm right there with you.. I think classy row homes with a garden apartment and then 2-3 levels above, all with quality brick/stone materials have a lasting appeal and character. For more residential areas those 2-3 levels can be broken in to 1 or 2 SF units, while here each could be a 2 BR apartment. Be creative with how you use the space between the back of the building and the alley way (I've dreamed of a half-underground parking with the roof of it being green space yard for the 1st level tenant, then setting back the next level up about 10 ft with a nice deck on the roof of floor one, THEN greening the roof to add even more "yard" space for the top level unit - pipe dreams). And yeah, it does kinda look like a CI&S hotel.. but I think that's more due to design/finish choice than poor use of overall space. The fact that 1/2 of the lot is spent on parking is the reality of smaller buildings not having underground parking be economical, but still wanting to meet demands. I still don't understand how so many college kids think they need a car on campus, let alone if they live 4 blocks from the border of school..

As to the parking lot at 5th/15th. Haha, good luck. That puppy is owned and served by McDonalds and the recently expanded Dinkytown Wine & Spirits. They would cry foul if ANYONE suggested they lose parking to bring in dear customers. Funny thing is that neither lot really opens up for things like football or basketball games, so why would visitors to the area care? Even funnier is that the area of the McD's parking lot closest to 5th NEVER fills up. It sits empty yet McD's says they'll tow anyone parking there but using other places. Furthermore, why couldn't a developer do what the 7-story apartment on Central/1st is doing with an arcade to a public parking area on the ground level, leaving SOME parking for the retail in the area? There is certainly plenty of open space in that little chunk - 0.8 acres worth (and almost exactly the same as said apartment proposal on Central).

[gahwi003]

I think McDonalds would be willing to give up their parking for a pretty penny. But they would NEVER give up the drive through, and the spots surrounding it.

As for Dinkytown Wine and Spirits, that lot us surprisingly full most nights. I dont anticipate them selling anytime soon after the newly remodeled entrance facing the lot.

[seanrichardryan]

...
As for Dinkytown Wine and Spirits, that lot us surprisingly full most nights. I dont anticipate them selling anytime soon after the newly remodeled entrance facing the lot.

It's hard to ride the bus with a keg.

[web]

been done.

[RailBaronYarr]

I think McDonalds would be willing to give up their parking for a pretty penny. But they would NEVER give up the drive through, and the spots surrounding it.

As for Dinkytown Wine and Spirits, that lot us surprisingly full most nights. I dont anticipate them selling anytime soon after the newly remodeled entrance facing the lot.

It definitely is full Friday/Saturday nights, especially right before closing. Function of the vast number of cars in Dinkytown and the laziness of students. I'm not saying no parking spots but what they have certainly seems like a lot considering the population that uses that store..

And yeah, McD's would never give up the drive through. They had the location in Stadium Village with no drive-thru and it closed. I think DT business is a HUGE portion of most McDs total sales. Plus, not every employee working there lives on/near campus, so I can see them wanting to keep those ~10+ spots

[mulad]

The existing houses on this site have been getting stripped on the interior and exterior (the siding has mostly been chopped off of the house on the left in this first shot), and one house has been taken down to the foundation so far.

[widin007]

I was just at a party at one of these houses last night and today was their last day to get moved out

[TheUrbanGopher]

Anyone know how much these will be going for rent? I would be interested to see how truly affordable these are. If this is the Dinkytown Rental group, their other projects include the lodges on 8th Street, and they arent necessarily cheap. Looks like a 5BR is going for $2850, which would be over $550 per person if each tenant had their own room.

http://www.dinkytownrentals.com/downloa ... y_list.pdf