Dinkytown

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
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Re: Dinkytown

Postby twincitizen » August 30th, 2013, 9:11 am

I'll note that Hofstede is just introducing the moratorium. It will be referred to the Z&P committee, then back to the full council before it is enacted.

Since Doran already filed applications with the City, would that development be exempt? Or how does that all work?

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby woofner » August 30th, 2013, 9:21 am

I noticed on the agenda that Hofstede was also planning to introduce a moratorium for the Nicollet Island-East Bank neighborhood. Any know what for? Desperate ploy for BANANA votes?
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Re: Dinkytown

Postby twincitizen » August 30th, 2013, 9:35 am

I imagine that one wouldn't stand a chance... That area desperately needs redevelopment.

It appears I was incorrect above. I guess I misunderstood what introducing an ordinance meant. I thought they simply introduce it and it gets referred to the appropriate committee for further discussion (possibly public hearing, etc.).

The moratorium vote failed on a 6-6 tie. Some surprising yes votes (Johnson, Colvin Roy). Who's missing today? Goodman?

The Nicollet Island-East Bank moratorium will be voted on at the next meeting. Is that neighborhood embarking on a Small Area Plan or something? That's the only reason I can think of that would possibly justify a moratorium.
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Re: Dinkytown

Postby mullen » August 30th, 2013, 9:38 am

lisa goodman was not at the meeting today.

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby Wedgeguy » August 30th, 2013, 9:42 am

How do you increase your tax base if all you have is moratorium that restrict the size and density in every area of the city. I think that a few more council people are starting to realize that they can't stop progress and that they are seeing development come in that make the city a better place whether they like or neighbors don't, a more vibrant city! As I've said many time, this is MPLS not Mayberry RFD.

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby talindsay » August 30th, 2013, 11:41 am

I'm glad the moratorium failed - that's not the right way to control and address growth. But I do want to point out that statements like, "they can't stop progress" really make urbanism look bad. First, there's no such thing as an invisible hand of "Progress" moving things forward - developments are proposed by certain interests for specific purposes in specific places. They *can* be stopped; it's not in the city's best interests to stop all of them, but the city may well want to stop some, and they may want to dramatically alter others. And development doesn't necessarily equate to "progress" - it simply equates to development. I for one love densely-built urban environments but high density is not a moral good in itself, and there's no reason to assume development means betterment. Moratoria are the wrong tools, but the city definitely *does* want to use less-blunt tools to shape the nature of the city's development.
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Re: Dinkytown

Postby MNdible » August 30th, 2013, 11:59 am

I'd add that, if the city sees a gathering cloud of development projects that are not consistent with the city's broader goals in a specific location, a moratorium may be exactly the right tool to allow time for the city's planning and zoning to catch up.

Ideally, the city's planning staff would be ahead of the game, but if wishes were horses...

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby FISHMANPET » August 30th, 2013, 12:12 pm

Robert Schiff made the statement that Doran's project is the only one in the pipeline. Staff keep a close eye on attempts to buy property or assemble parcels, even moreso that a Small Area Plan is under review. Apparently, McDonalds recently turned down an offer to buy their land. So unless someone is doing something super secretly, there's nothing else in the pipeline, and a moratorium would just be to stop the Doran project. And then another council member called him out on that, saying that the council tries really hard to not ascribe motives to other council member's actions.

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby MNdible » August 30th, 2013, 12:21 pm

Gary!

To be clear, I wasn't saying that a moratorium is right in this case, just that a moratorium isn't always the wrong tool.

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby twincitizen » August 30th, 2013, 12:37 pm

It would be HUH-larious to watch SaveDinkytown or similar group try to stop redevelopment of McDonalds. "NO MORE CHAINS!"

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby talindsay » August 30th, 2013, 1:49 pm

Gary!

To be clear, I wasn't saying that a moratorium is right in this case, just that a moratorium isn't always the wrong tool.
I think you were clear, and while I actually doubt whether a moratorium could *ever* be the best tool, I do agree with you.

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby FISHMANPET » August 30th, 2013, 2:23 pm

Ach, Gary. I always get him confused with the guy who played Toby in The West Wing (whose name is actually Richard, so where did Robert come from?).

Anyway, Gary made a few other good points.
1) This moratorium does not protect the entire area being studied under the small area plan, only a subset of it.
2) A moratorium is traditionally started at the beginning of the small area plan process (like in Linden Hills), not near the end of it.

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby twincitizen » August 30th, 2013, 2:25 pm

It should also be noted that Lisa Goodman's absence this morning was truly the only thing that prevented a moratorium from being enacted. God bless her (illness, vacation, or engagement that prevented her attendance today.)

Also, can we talk about this whole "four-block area" thing for a minute? The area we're talking about is really more like 3.2 blocks, due to the trench cutting off the southeasterly block. What would be the purpose of including that in the moratorium? Frankly, if a moratorium were to occur, I would specifically NOT want that block included, so something greater could be built on that very challenged site!

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby FISHMANPET » August 30th, 2013, 2:34 pm

SHUT UP DINKYTOWN IS PERFECT THE WAY IT IS!

The University owns most of that block, I don't see why they'd be interested in selling any of it to a developer.

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby twincitizen » August 30th, 2013, 2:36 pm

I meant redeveloping the developable portion of it (and MAYBE air rights over the tracks) into something taller/better than 1-story commercial buildings. I just don't see any point in including it in a moratorium or even this whole "four holy blocks" discussion. There's nothing special about what's on this corner today. How great would that be if the storefronts could extend further down 14th Ave or 4th St. The overhead transmission lines could be an issue...

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby FISHMANPET » August 30th, 2013, 2:44 pm

There's nothing special about a lot of it, but it all needs to be frozen in time anyway.

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby MNdible » August 30th, 2013, 2:55 pm

I'd actually be interested in figuring out a way to preserve those power line towers long term. I think they're pretty iconic, especially with the view down the rail corridor into downtown.

Speaking of which, how many people remember the old Dinkytown railroad bridges?

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby mulad » August 30th, 2013, 6:51 pm

I think they were in the midst of being replaced when I went to Summer Honors College in 1996, possibly extending into when I started as a freshman in '97. I remember there being a big mess in the area, but I don't remember the old bridges.

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby Wedgeguy » August 31st, 2013, 12:56 pm

They were all the old truss style bridges.

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Re: Dinkytown

Postby Silophant » September 15th, 2013, 12:37 pm

I'd actually be interested in figuring out a way to preserve those power line towers long term. I think they're pretty iconic, especially with the view down the rail corridor into downtown.
That's probably doable. Transmission structures last a loong time, so they aren't likely to go anywhere soon, and even if one had to be replaced, Xcel has in the past been willing to use non-standard structures for aesthetic reasons. (See the arched towers going up the Mississippi from Nicollet Island.)

For the last few nights, the larger portion of the McDonald's parking lot, north of the 15th Ave. entrance, has been blocked off with cones and caution tape. Anyone know what's going on there? My hope is that the owner has received an offer he's having trouble refusing from Opus or Doran or someone, and he's seeing if he can do without the parking, but it's probably something less exciting.
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