The Venue at Dinkytown - (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

[RailBaronYarr]

^^ Which means that delay for the DSAP would have absolutely forced them to miss the rental cycle for 2014. Ignoring that had it been turned down to wait, Opus would likely have just dropped it and moved on to another opportunity (as they stated in a recent interview).

[TheUrbanGopher]

Currently writing a streets.mn post summarizing the fiery discussion and talking about next steps for Dinkytown. Site is down now, but I'll hopefully have it up by the end of the day.

[kiliff75]

From the StarTribune story:

Supporters of the project held signs like: "Don’t let scare tactics stop quality redevelopment of blighted parking lot. Approve this project!!”

Does this apply to anyone from here?

http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/218106821.html

[talindsay]

Now, what I would absolutely love to see is validation that small businesses can survive in this building. Duffy's Pizza would be a great start. Does anyone want to start a business with me and take up shop in one of the spaces?

Tim Hortons!

[FISHMANPET]

I tweeted at @MattYglesias to let him know it passed suggesting he write a piece on it, and he retweeted me. So basically I can die happy now.

[twincitizen]

Just as encouraging as passage of this item earlier today were the comments from Reich and Glidden. Losing Schiff from the council is a bummer. Whoever replaces him in that ward will not be nearly as savvy on urban issues.

[Nathan]

Thanks for the live feed everyone! I wish I'd been able to watch! Sounds like it was a pretty good debate. I'm still a little stunned from when I opened the thread and saw that it passed! Wow. Cool. Never felt so good about writing a few emails. Can't wait to vote for Bender this fall!

[TheUrbanGopher]

https://streets.mn/2013/08/02/dinkytown ... king-lots/

[David Greene]

Just as encouraging as passage of this item earlier today were the comments from Reich and Glidden.

Glidden is very smart. She's been my favorite on the council for a while now. I've never met Reich but am pleased that he seems to get it.

[twincitizen]

From the updated Strib story:

“This is a really critical issue not just for Dinkytown but for each and every neighborhood in the city of Minneapolis because it goes to the core of who we are as a city,” Hofstede said.

Following the meeting, she could be overheard telling a business owner outside the council chambers that she will proposing a development moratorium for the area. She declined to comment on it when approached by a reporter.

[PhilmerPhil]

Could Opus theoretically start construction right now if they wanted to? What good does a moratorium do if a project has gotten approved and has begun?

[Nathan]

The moratorium would prevent future projects in the 4 block area.

[twincitizen]

Could Opus theoretically start construction right now if they wanted to? What good does a moratorium do if a project has gotten approved and has begun?

The moratorium would not affect Opus' project. It's already been approved. The moratorium would affect anything for which the City has not already received applications. The Linden Hills moratorium was 1 year, to let them finish the plan. If Hofstede thinks this council would vote for any sort of permanent restrictions on development of the "4 holy blocks" (other than historic designation of specific buildings), she really is nuts.

For me, I'd rather see specific buildings designated as worth saving, rather than adopting some kind of hard limits on height and density. If the Dinkytown market is that lucrative, developers can find a way to only develop the surface parking lots, leaving the existing fabric of the streetscapes intact. This is what Tuthill was referring to when she brought up Mozaic. It didn't touch the existing streetscape at all, and in exchange they were allowed to build a 10-story building where they would have otherwise not been able to.

[RailBaronYarr]

Then the question remains... how many of the buildings in Dinkytown are actually worth preserving outright? As a 3.5 year resident and frequent visitor to the area, I can say maybe a handful. I thought I saw in the Small Area Plan preliminary documents that they'd be going for a 'preservation district' - what implications does that have for development. Only on surface parking and need to maintain all buildings as they are? Can you re-do some buildings to add more stories to them if you keep the street facade as-is? Or does it allow a committee (architecture or historical society) to allow case-by-case arguments for redeveloping individual buildings (ie losing them)?

[MNdible]

Typically, Historic Districts have contributing and non-contributing structures, based on what the period of historical significance is. Let's say that this was determined to be, say 1880-1968. Anything that was existing from that period would be considered to be a contributing structure. You could still, in theory, tear that down, but there would be many more hoops to jump through.

A non-contributing structure built after 1968 could be torn down quite easily, but whatever replaced it would need to conform to the rules of the Historic District, which are specifically written for each district and can be fairly restrictive.

[Unity77]

It's time for Gordon, Hofstede, Tuthill, and Goodman to move on. I want MPLS prosper and it won't happen with those four around.

[FISHMANPET]

I sure hope Dinkytown doesn't become a historic district. I think a lot of Dinkytown's value lies in the fact that it's always changing.

And just as an anecdote, even though McDonald's is McDonald's, I think plenty of undergrads will look fondly back on Dinkytown's Drunkdonald's. I'd love if that parking lot was redeveloped and that building no longer in a hole in the ground, but I think I'd be a little sad if there wasn't a McDonald's on that corner anymore.

[RailBaronYarr]

Typically, Historic Districts have contributing and non-contributing structures, based on what the period of historical significance is. Let's say that this was determined to be, say 1880-1968. Anything that was existing from that period would be considered to be a contributing structure. You could still, in theory, tear that down, but there would be many more hoops to jump through.

A non-contributing structure built after 1968 could be torn down quite easily, but whatever replaced it would need to conform to the rules of the Historic District, which are specifically written for each district and can be fairly restrictive.

Thanks for the info. I'd be curious to see what someone would describe are the attributes one would have to conform to in Dinkytown if it were an historic district. There is quite literally no rhyme or reason to any of the buildings' style or form (other than simply being 3 stories or shorter). While I will admit/recognize this is what the SD folks mean by 'eclectic,' they also have to recognize that the wide array of styles is a complete byproduct of an area that, for a long time, embraced change and development throughout different periods, yielding the collection we see today. Maybe they could implement a form based code with no parking minimums and the pattern of development people like so much (smaller units with differing architecture) could be built quite easily?..

[RailBaronYarr]

And just as an anecdote, even though McDonald's is McDonald's, I think plenty of undergrads will look fondly back on Dinkytown's Drunkdonald's. I'd love if that parking lot was redeveloped and that building no longer in a hole in the ground, but I think I'd be a little sad if there wasn't a McDonald's on that corner anymore.

Second that.. I have plenty of great post-midnight stories that take place there. Like anyone, the nostalgia you get thinking about it makes you cringe at the idea of losing it... but my memories don't do future generations of students any good. I will say that an always-open, drunk-friendly place like McDonalds certainly has a place on campus (and I've often wondered why there are no Taco Bells outside the one on Franklin..).

[FISHMANPET]

Are you perhaps referring to the Taco Bell across the street from my apartment which I am the mayor of on Foursquare? I believe you are.

If McDonalds was gone for something else I'd be sad but understanding (though I'm sure McDonald's makes piles of money so I'm not worried about them being gentrified out). I guess I made that statement to point out that it's not really about chains vs local companies, it's about what a business adds to the neighborhood. Chains can add character, and local shops can be duds.

The only thing historical I'd like to see preserved in Dinkytown is the story. There should be photo students doing projects on Dinkytown ever year, capturing history in the making. To me part of the charm of Dinkytown is that it's always changing, but that doesn't mean we flush the history down the toilet. We should capture it and save it in a way that doesn't prevent Dinkytown from continuing to evolve.